A short rant and a brown station wagon

Posted by joy.the.curious on Jul 18, 2015 in Jacob | 163 comments

A short rant

Sorry for the l.o.n.g. lapse since my last blog post. I decided I needed to take a break for a bit and regroup. During that time, I did a lot of soul searching and asked myself what exactly it is I’m trying to do here.

So often times, this all gets really hard… and it’s not for the reasons you might think. Yes, the tips I receive are often disturbing and unsettling. And yes, the sheer amount of information I receive gets hard to keep up with. But by far, the hardest part through all of this has been the constant backlash from people who question my motives and my integrity. I have found that people can be amazingly callous, intensely antagonistic, and really, just downright mean.

All I’m trying to do here is keep the conversation going. At the end of the day, I’m just a mom trying to help another mom find her missing child. That’s it. I’m not writing a book, I’m not seeking attention, and I’m not looking for any kind of payback. The Wetterlings are amazing people, and the more I’ve gotten to know them, the more I’ve come to respect them and all the work they’ve done to find their missing son. They have been through so much, and I’ve been so hopeful that all the attention generated in Jacob’s case last year might finally lead to some answers. Hopefully it’s been helpful… who knows. All we can do is keep praying and keep trying.

I should mention, too, that for all the mean comments I’ve received, the majority are overwhelmingly positive. People have stepped up, shared their tips, and bent over backward trying to help me in this effort. Thank you to everyone who has commented, replied, or sent feedback in an effort to help. I promise I read every single one, even though I may not always reply.

OK. Rant over.

The brown station wagon

In my last post, I mentioned I had recently spoken to a guy who had witnessed the station wagon that was parked near the woods in the days just prior to Jacob’s abduction. It was bothering him whether the car he saw was light blue (like he remembers), or dark brown (like the newspaper articles stated). So, he decided to call the Stearns County Sheriff’s Office to request a copy of his original police statement.

The investigator he spoke to couldn’t give him a copy of the actual statement, but was able to provide some details.

According to the statement, this young teen and his friend were taken out of school on December 21st (almost two months after the abduction) and gave their statement together. They mentioned that they’d seen the older guy in the woods on October 18th, which would have been a Thursday (four days before the abduction). They also mentioned that there had been a party in the woods later that night (which I thought was odd for a Thursday, but was recently reminded there was no school on Friday because of MEA weekend).

The car he described was a dark brown station wagon (not blue) with a lot of rust and an orange and black “Catch Me If You Can” sticker on the rear fender. (Read my previous blog post for more information about this Hollywood movie that was filmed in St. Cloud.)

There was no mention of any wood panels on this brown station wagon, so I checked with another of the young men I had interviewed about “the men in the woods.” I was trying to figure out whether all these sightings occurred on the same day, or whether the boys witnessed different guys in different station wagons on different days. Most of the boys remember the man in the woods being an older guy, but at least one of them told me they had also seen a younger, skinnier guy up in a tree holding a clipboard.

After speaking with this young man a second time, he also decided to call up to Stearns County to see if he could verify the details from his statement.

Here’s what he learned. According to the report, this young man and his friend were taken out of school on January 26th, 1990 (three months later… not immediately after the kidnapping, as he had remembered it). They were brought to the Stearns County Sheriff’s Office where they took part (separately) in a lineup and a police sketch. According to what he remembers, they were told to “pick the guy who looks the most like the man you saw in the woods.” I asked him if he was under the impression they were supposed to choose someone who “looked like” the guy, or if they were picking out the actual guy. He’s pretty sure they were just asked to pick the guy who “looked” the most like him.

The statement says he picked #3 in the lineup, who happened to be an off-duty police officer. (Apparently it’s common to pluck a few innocent “stand-ins” from the department to complete the lineup.) Because of the person they picked, it’s possible this is why their sketches were never released to the public. However, he felt it was odd that neither of the sketches they had done were included in their files, nor any statement that mentioned details about the man or the station wagon. But, maybe they’re in another file somewhere.

Author’s note

On July 10, I met with Captain Pam Jensen at the Stearns County Sheriff’s Office. I wanted to talk to her about some negative comments she made about me to this witness who was just trying to help me sort out this lead about the brown station wagon. Suffice it to say, the meeting did not go well, which prompted my long break and subsequent rant.

Normally I screen the comments I receive, but this time, I decided to just approve them all so you could get a glimpse into my crazy every time hit the “publish” button. Not that I’m complaining… it’s OK, I appreciate the input. But, sometimes I just need to ask myself why I’m doing this and whether it’s even making a difference. Because, honestly, I’m seriously behind on life and laundry over here.

Next time

A Wilderness Trek for Jacob

163 Comments

1.     dreampeddler1 | July 18, 2015 at 6:15 pm 

Thank you so much. I just donated. What a great thing. I’m the same age as Jacob and living in WI. I remember this case vividly and keep this family in my prayers.

2.     Jeffrey Hales | July 18, 2015 at 6:21 pm 

Keep up the good work, Joy. You are doing the noblest of things with your time, energy, and blog. I commend your efforts.

3.     Teresa | July 18, 2015 at 6:35 pm 

It wouldn’t be off to have a party on a Thursday night, those dates are usually the dates set in Oct for Mn MEA school break… So a party would make perfect sense. I bet you could pull an old school calendar and verify if it was MEA. For instance, this year it’s Oct 15, 16, (thurs, Fri). It’s always planned on October, annually. Worth a check?

4.     Lori L | July 18, 2015 at 6:41 pm 

I am in awe with all you do in your blog! I’m shocked and sad that anyone would for some dumb, dumb reason be mean about it. What’s the point? There is so much negativity online these days and it’s refreshing to see someone who is doing something simply out of the goodness of their heart. Please keep writing. It is fascinating and heart wrenching at the same time. I think of Jacob and his family very, very often. Thank you!

5.     B. Smith | July 18, 2015 at 7:30 pm 

Thank you, Joy for keeping this case alive and Jacob in people’s minds!

6.     Lisa | July 18, 2015 at 8:11 pm 

Please don’t give up Joy! I can’t imagine why anyone would say anything mean about your motives. It’s obvious you’ve invested soooooooo much time into this and I’ve often thought how kind it is for you to put so much time and effort into something that you aren’t being compensated for. Not only the time to write and post, but the time to sort and make sense of all of the information. I understand why you do it, though. Because like so many of us, you want to know what happened to beautiful little Jacob, and his parents and this world deserves answers. Your blog keeps us hoping and has uncovered some great clues and info. I really think you’ve gotten us closer to the truth. Just tune the haters out. And thanks for all of your time!

7.     Jean Bradley | July 18, 2015 at 9:27 pm 

Don’t listen to mean people, Joy. You are doing amazing work, and I believe you will help get this case solved.

8.     Teresa | July 18, 2015 at 9:29 pm 

I agree with previous post on just ignoring any person questioning your motives. There is always going to be a negative person out there, and it’s easy to make a comment and hide behind social media. The most important thing, the big picture, is keeping the case in the public eye. There are so many cold cases solved each year now, due to new technology, witnesses coming forward, etc. If this blog, or your communications with people, help to solve this case or move it forward in ANY way, people should support that 100 percent. If it were their child, I would expect they would welcome any exposure. This case has haunted me since it happened. My little brother was the same age as Jacob when this happened, and actually looked just like him. All I kept thinking about was, “it could be my brother”, it was heartbreaking. At the time, I organized a fund raising event on my college campus because I felt so compelled to help any way I could. I’ve followed the case ever since, and have been frustrated with the lack of information available. I can’t even express how happy I was to see what you were doing. Just keeping the case alive and talking to witnesses is so important in a cold case. Sometimes it takes years for people to come forward, especially when dealing with sex crimes. So keep doing what you’re doing, and don’t let anyone’s negative comments stop you!! The rest of us are behind you and grateful for your work!

9.     Donavon Mickelson | July 18, 2015 at 10:20 pm 

I hope something is found soon as I know how tough it is to find things out about old cases. I was recently involved in attempting to find the name of a girl murdered in 1980 by a Minnesota State Patrolman, and she was finally identified this spring. I then took it upon myself to dive into the case of JoAnn Bontjes who was murdered 40 years ago in Martin County near Trimont. I have shaken up the entire County and Law Enforcement plus the Cold Case unit and I am nearly positive we now know who the killer was. It’s not easy with old cases but they can be cleared up. If and when we get this case completed, I intend to get an assistant to help look into the Wetterling case. Keep on bringing in the info and recording it as it might very well come in handy.

10.  Lanie | July 18, 2015 at 10:25 pm 

Haters and trolls should just quit following this page. Keep doing what you do Joy. I remember being a mom with a son who is Jacobs age and we need more people like you who care.

11.  Stephanie Madison | July 18, 2015 at 10:29 pm 

Keep on keeping on Joy! Keeping the search alive makes a difference on many different levels for many people. In the bigger picture, awareness about Jason is the objective. I am not surprised there is suspicion, negative feedback, and just downright meanness…..I work as a psych nurse. I am glad you shared about your experiences and feedback writing your blog so we can all support your efforts.

12.  Debbie | July 18, 2015 at 11:34 pm 

“At the end of the day, I’m just a mom trying to help another mom find her missing child.” Tears came to my eyes when I read this. Because, I feel the same way. Please, do not give up Joy! Keep the conversation going! Thank you for all you are doing.

13.  Gentry | July 19, 2015 at 1:03 am 

Joy trust me the idiots who give you hell for god knows why are probably needing mental health care sadly. Don’t let this take away from all the sacrifice and hard work you have done for this tragic and sad story that has affected millions of Americans since Jacob was abducted. I was a freshmen in high school when this happened and has haunted me ever since. With your hard work and other’s this case will be solved. It has to be. The Wetterlings deserve this. God bless you and the Wetterlings.

14.  Kelly guenther | July 19, 2015 at 1:29 am 

It doesn’t matter what other people think of what your trying to do,your helping a family that needs answers.

15.  Lynn W | July 19, 2015 at 2:04 am 

You are an angel. Never forget this.

16.  Amanda m | July 19, 2015 at 2:38 am 

I’m 22 from Texas and I have absolutely no reason to be obsessed with this case! I have been captivated by this case and the Lyon sisters cold case for over a year. By the way their recent indictment has given me a great deal of hope for what you are doing here. It shows after 40 years anything is possible. Another very unsettling thing about the Lyons case is that according to authorities it appears that not only were the relatives aware that he took those girls BUT some of them actually helped him cover up the crime!!! And get this even after indictment are still trying to do so after overwhelming evidence and testimony. 

I believe there are people who have a lot of information and do not want to come forward. It could be very much like the Lyon case with the conspiracy of covering it up.

Also I barely noticed how large Jacob was for a 6th grader… Not sure how mature he looked but what if this person was a some sort of school employee/teacher who had knowledge of these parties. stalked the teens and once the party busted he just happened to come across Jacob and selected him because he looked closer to his age preference? Sounds like this person was drawn to teens (catch me if you can sticker teen set) 

It would be nice to know which officer look similar to verify against yearbooks if possible and if you have time. Surely the highschools still have yearbooks. 

Keep searching! Remember the Lyons girls!!! 40 years!!! Anything is possible.

17.  Derek | July 19, 2015 at 7:46 am 

I am sorry I think Jacob is alive. I am sorry I don’t agree with you about a party in the woods being significant in Jacob’s abduction seeing as how parties were never apart of the abductor’s M.O and that had literally been the first time he had ever attacked in St. Joseph. I’m sorry you are so fascinated by these parties that went on every night except for the night of the abduction which I told you even before that information was available even to me. I am sorry that there two men in the woods that had nothing to do with the abduction nor even match the description given by any of the victims. I am sorry about all the car descriptions that don’t match Jared’s statement. I am sorry that the comments you approve of all have a bias of containing something that supports you and is Christian based. I mean seriously lets take a look at the comments so far: The first comment is Christian based, the second one is just a comment praising you. The third is trying to get you to look into a school schedule to find out if a party happened on Thursday or something nothing at all really pertaining to anything that could help find Jacob find the abductor or even get anything credible as far as tips. And then the last three are praising you again. How many comments do you ignore just to post a comment of someone praising you for what you are doing. Then make me feel like the asshole for calling you out on it. I could make a thousand accounts and leave comments like Praise Jesus and Praise Joy and everyone of them would get posted by I post something that could start a debate and get people arguing a little really talking about the case and that’s a no no. Or you’ll post one of my comments and I will get a reply and when I then try to refute that does not get sent so I can never properly defend my position on anything, Even then in the beginning I was just sending you emails which you could have very well just blocked me but you kept telling me how I should write them on the blog. And I don’t even care that you don’t post my comments but it seems like you ignore others who also have a difference of opinion from you or your current article.

18.  Elizabeth | July 19, 2015 at 8:02 am 

Hello Joy. Your blog has created a platform for people to discuss and bring new information to Jacob’s case. The new information surfacing, and old information that is combed through and clarified, and discussions that occur in result together create the possibility that Jacob’s case will be solved. You are driven to pursue this case. It’s that drive which leads to the determination needed to solve cases, especially one so old. Maybe Jacob’s abductor has left a negative comment to discourage you from pursuing the case? I was a student attending College of St. Benedict at the time of Jacob’s abuction and have followed the case and Patty Wetterling’s work over the years. I hope Jacob’s case is solved and that his family can finally have some answers. Thank you for your work Joy!

19.  joy.the.curious | July 19, 2015 at 8:41 am 

Derek/Duke,

At last count, you have left 126 comments on my blog, 23 of which I have approved. The remaining 103 comments have been held in moderation because they are either offensive, inaccurate, or contain names of people who have not been officially named as persons of interest in the case. Berating other commenters for their ideas or opinions will not be tolerated. That being said, I read all your comments and appreciate your analytical thought process and attention to detail. All I ask is that you please be respectful of others and play nice in the sandbox.

20.  sanda | July 19, 2015 at 9:28 am 

DEAR JOY, YOU ARE ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE THAT IS VERY HARD TO FIND. YOU ARE BRAVE, GRACEFUL, SMART,COMMITTED AND SOOO MUCH MORE! YOU ARE DOING AMAZING AND ALWAYS KNOW THAT WE LOVE YOU AND APPRECIATE YOUR INCREDIBLE WORK. KEEP ON GOING AND NEVER GIVE UP!! ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT SMALL MINDS CAN NOT COMPREHEND BIG SPIRITS!

21.  Lori L | July 19, 2015 at 9:52 am 

And now we all can understand a little better what you are talking about. You have far more patience than I would. I find it interesting when someone tries so hard to steer you from all you know. What’s their motivation? Seems like they must be guilty of something they don’t want you near. I vote to not even let them outside near the sand box!

22.  L | July 19, 2015 at 9:56 am 

All car descriptions are relevant. The perp could have owned more than one car, could have gotten a new car, could have borrowed a car, or there could be multiple perps. Any clue is relevant at this time because the case hasn’t been solved.

23.  Dean | July 19, 2015 at 11:57 am 

Thanks for sharing the challenges you have been facing. You are brave and doing the public good. You are appreciated by thousands. Please keep up this fine and worthy effort.

24.  Gregory Pollock | July 19, 2015 at 1:46 pm 

Ignore the negative ones. You’re my hero blogger. I remember this case and have been following your posts. You are doing a great thing. Keep up the good work. I have a blog that has to do with losing my son, different circumstances, but with your permission would like to mention what you are doing.

25.  Jessica | July 19, 2015 at 9:35 pm 

I have binge-read this blog for the past 9 days. I am in Michigan and was a college student in WI when Jacob was taken. I had a close friend at St. Ben’s at the time and we would talk on the phone about this when it happened. I have always had a soft spot for the Wetterling family and have over the years checked for updates. I was ecstatic when Jacob’s story appeared on The Hunt. I was shocked about the news about Paynesville and this blog. Everyone has a ton of great ideas and opinions. I am going to throw mine in to the mix. In my opinion, the incidents in Paynesville are extremely significant. I found out today that Paynesville has a population of 2500. Someone in the area needs to get a city directory from 1988 in Paynesville and copy the pages for the streets around the attacks. Someone familiar with the names and families can start crossing off names of people that it can’t possibly be (different ethnicity than the composite drawing, wrong age, etc.) By process of elimination start narrowing down the citizens of Paynesville. Someone in Paynesville recognizes the drawing as a former creepy co-worker or neighbor. The person that attacked the boys in Paynesville must be from there. He is the link to Jared to Jacob in my humble opinion. I am SO grateful, Joy, that you started this project. Thank you.

26.  Teresa | July 19, 2015 at 10:30 pm 

To Derek…in response to you critizing my comment I was simply responding to Joy’s comment about how having a party on a Thursday night would be odd. I was simply saying it wouldn’t be odd if it was MEA school break. As far as the rest of your comments, you are entitled to have your own opinion, but you can post comments regarding your opinion without being derogatory to someone else. Making a remark about someone else being a Christian, or posting negative comments about Joy, isn’t going to help solve Jacobs case either. If you are here to help, then post your comments on why you think whatever it is you think without naming names, or being outright rude to another person. If you do that, your posts will most likely be approved. This blog is about solving the case, getting answers, and being helpful. Not the place to grandstand against Christianity, or berate the blogger. If you have genuine information or facts to add to this blog, do so in a polite, professional manner.

27.  Charles S. | July 20, 2015 at 12:00 am 

Joy, thank you so much for everything you’ve done regarding this case. It takes a special person to go as far as you have in searching for answers. I really don’t know why I’m so interested in this case. I was born 4 years after Jacob’s kidnapping. Maybe it’s the brazenness of the act. Maybe it’s the memories I have of me and my friends riding bikes just like Jacob, Trevor, and Aaron did that night. I lived in a similar neighborhood (small, subdivision surrounded by farmland) as well.

Anyways, please keep up the good work. I am so glad that we have someone actively seeking answers and investigating. A few of the recent developments from other cold cases are keeping my hopes up that we will find out what happened, and hopefully justice will be served.

28.  Mario V | July 20, 2015 at 6:27 am 

Hi Joy!
Sorry you had trouble with posters. Remember you and your blog are very important in many ways. As others above said: “Keep on keepin’ on” and doing your thing here. 

I see the awful loss of the Wetterling’s for what it is, but at the same time I see the tremendous positives in keeping hope alive, bringing people together and involved in something positive. Even if we can never find out, I know that what you and so many others have done was important and helped many others, and many of us have made nice friends from this.

29.  meredithmclovin | July 20, 2015 at 11:56 am 

Hi Everyone,

No matter who you are or what you do, there will always be someone who disagrees and criticizes. It’s just the nature of humanity. They should be allowed to express themselves, for we should always humbly admit we are not the ultimate authority on anything, but there is such thing as healthy debate. If someone wants to challenge you, fine, who knows it could lead to some answers. However, it does not need to be done in a accusatory or demeaning way. Playing “Devil’s Advocate” is a lot different than passing judgments and throwing accusations at people you don’t truly know.

Every time I see a notice from Word Press in my Inbox that your blog has a new post, I jump on it. I drop what I’m doing and go in to read it right away. I’m just hoping and praying you made another break in the case. Maybe it’s because I have children, maybe because Jacob and I are only a year apart in age, maybe I am just simply human, but I’d sure like to know what happened too!

You don’t strike me as doing this for fame and/or money, Joy. Jacob’s case is both fascinating and heartbreaking. As parents we can easily picture the nightmare of this being our own child, and be gripped by similar emotions. 

Of course we can never fully know until we have been there, but we can get a sense of how a missing child can shatter our lives. We can have deep empathy for the Whetterlings. Imagine what it must be like every day to wake up and look out the window and think, “where is my child?” It’s a pain beyond comprehension.

However, the Whetterlings are brave, John Walsh is brave. They are heroes. They did an amazing job of creating something that changed society in the face of great tragedies.

I think you just empathize, Joy. You are someone who decided to take the reigns and be proactive about finding justice for Jacob. He deserves not to be forgotten as a cold case. How can we just shrug our shoulders after 25 years and say “oh well”??? How can we let this man get away with the terrible crime he committed?

For those that say you only have your own self-interest in mind, I think you are just following your passion. You are standing up for justice and something you believe in. You are someone who is a writer and has an inquisitive mind. You are someone who would have made a good detective. Maybe Jacob’s case and this blog nurtures those things in you, but it’s something that is working toward a greater good. I see it as someone is channeling that energy into something positive. Your blog has also inspired me to donate to organizations that support missing and abused children.

Thanks for the link to the Jacob Whetterling foundation, I hope to help them in their endeavors somehow.

30.  Heidi | July 20, 2015 at 12:38 pm 

I remember my daughter, at 7 years old coming to me asking me this very question ” mom, how can people be so mean? ”
Don’t sweat Joy & keep doing what you are doing! Some one some where will always question you, your motives. It’s the world we live in.

31.  Jim G. | July 20, 2015 at 1:20 pm 

I think Joy’s blog has revealed a lot of new information about the Wetterling kidnapping and, apparently, it’s jogged some people’s memories about events around the time of the abduction. I think that’s very important and may help resolve the case. I appreciate the work Joy has done. 

I also realize that other people have had strong opinions about who was responsible, with good reason, from early on. The problem with cold cases is that the colder they get, the wider the net of ‘persons of interest.’

I have the feeling that if the abductor is revealed someday, it’s just as likely that people will say ‘Who the hell is that?’ as ‘I knew it was him all along.’

32.  Jim | July 20, 2015 at 7:51 pm 

first of all to Derek I have post a comment a couple times that didn’t get posted , after taking a second look I believe they were not posted because I rambled some ,maybe it was not really clear what I was saying , or maybe Joy felt I was accusing someone of something when I questioned there statements or actions.
Joy is only trying to help , and her motivation I am sure is they same as most anyone who posts here ,common decency and caring
Derek we can leave no stone unturned , the FBI was interested in talking to the man in the woods the man in the station wagon , I don’t believe they ever found the men , why ? why did no one come forward ?
there are several case of missing older kids in the area who did disappear after leaving a party ,some right in the area , different age group different party places different M.O. but leave no stone unturned
and Joy was only trying to find some reason why a some creep might be hanging around .

so now Joy I wonder if these boys who seen the man in the woods have had a look at all the sketches we have seen here , Jared’s ,Jenifer’s ect
any of them maybe look like the man in the woods ?
and sticking with the no stone unturned moto what about the off duty officer that the one boy picked out , something tells me that that stone didn’t get completely turned over , was he on or off duty at the time of the abduction .
of course just being in the woods a few days before means little 

also so where is the apartment building were the wagon was also seen
was it near Jacob’s house , could he have seen the Wetterlings leave for dinner , then maybe he decided to hang around maybe prowl , maybe he seen the boys leave , realised where they were headed and knew they would return down that road ? just a theory
I just find it hard to believe no one from the apartment ,from the area would know who owned that wagon unless it was someone who was not a local
and he never comes forward when police are looking for him
certainly still worth looking for . someone knows who owned that wagon with the bumper stickers .easily memorable still
Derek we all hope you are right and Jacob is alive
keep up the good work Joy , keep talking everyone

33.  Donavon Mickelson | July 20, 2015 at 9:33 pm 

Very well written except for the spelling of Wetterling. LOL You have a talent for writing.

34.  Ryan Larson | July 21, 2015 at 12:18 am 

Joy,

OK Rant over! LOL, I think I’ve used that before as well’sometimes it just makes you feel better, get it out! As you’re aware I myself have been on the receiving end of those negative comments. People say to look the other way, don’t let it bother you…easier said than done being these are comments coming from those that walk amongst you. I haven’t really figured out myself how to live with it, so advice, I cannot offer. Donavon….as a former police chief you should know better than to make the kind of public accusations that you have in the past without the proper evidence, let alone no evidence. I sure you know what I’m speaking of.

I’m glad to see information from us local St. Joseph residents who were a part of the immediate area, may be looked at more closely than it has in the past. As always, if there is anything that I or the other guys can do to help you or the Wetterlings, I hope all of you don’t hesitate to ask, we’re here to help!

You know where I feel the problem in the case lies. Many things were overlooked, or not looked into enough IMO. I would myself be “curious” to know what your blog followers think of the squealing tire connection. As someone mentioned earlier…leave no stone unturned.

http://www.missingkids.com/poster/NCMC/731065

http://www.findjoshua.com/

35.  Rene | July 21, 2015 at 1:45 pm 

Thank you for your work on this case. I pray that this family will find out what happened to their child one day.

36.  Jim | July 21, 2015 at 8:46 pm 

Ryan what is the squealing tire connection

37.  Debbie | July 22, 2015 at 12:09 am 

Ryan Larson,

My heart just about beat out of my chest after reading your comment and researching your name. I have wondered if Cold Spring Officer Tom Decker’s shooting could be related to Jacob’s disappearance. Did he know too much? Did his job cause him to stumble onto information regarding Jacob’s abduction? I would like to ask you, what is the squealing tire connection?, also. 

But…..remember, you can always go to the upper right hand corner of Joy’s Blog page where it says “Contact” in the brown area to contact Joy, if you don’t want your ideas or concerns made public.

I have contacted Joy this way…with two of my ideas (that I was afraid to publicly post). And it worked very well. Joy even contacted me to discuss my ideas.

38.  Ryan Larson | July 23, 2015 at 9:04 am 

Minneapolis Star Tribune, October 24th, 1989
“Trevor and Aaron said they didn…t hear or see a vehicle, but a person who lives nearby told police he heard tires squealing about 9 pm.”

“A new theory”:
https://joythecurious.com////2013/07/07/a-new-theory

From transcript:
“I was with… he… we, you know, we waited up there for probably two minutes. I mean… and then we heard the tires squeal.”

I truly believe there is a lot more to this story.

39.  Ryan S | July 23, 2015 at 11:56 pm 

It is plausible that the man in the blaze orange cap was a bow hunter or even a trapper. While many municipalities do not allow firearm hunting in or near city limits, many still allow archery. The guy may have been in a tree stand. I’ve also known trappers to wear an article of blaze orange to avoid being shot when checking traps.

40.  Donavon Mickelson | July 24, 2015 at 2:03 am 

I don’t understand why some people WANT to believe there was a car involved in Jacobs kidnapping. I can also tell those who read these blogs that it is VERY RARE that TWO or more suspects are involved in kidnappings such as this. These are important things to keep in mind.

41.  Tate | July 24, 2015 at 10:01 am 

If there was only one perp and he took jacob by foot, why was the last footprint of jacob his toe dragging, can bloodhounds track scent if jacob was being carried? the most anyone can know is if we had access to the police investigation files, maybe something was overlooked. There has to be something, God knows what happened that night, “seek and you shall find”-Christ.

42.  Jean Bradley | July 24, 2015 at 11:15 am 

I think that this kidnapper would need a car in order to quickly get away. When you consider the massive search party in the area, I don’t believe the kidnapper would have gotten far enough away without a car. No trace of Jacob was ever found. If there was no car involved, maybe the kidnapper lived close by. This could be one of the reasons why the next door neighbor was a suspect. However, I just can’t see kidnapping your next door neighbor’ child on your own property. Joy is doing a great job, and I am hopeful that she will help solve this crime someday.

43.  sanda | July 24, 2015 at 3:25 pm 

I agree

44.  Donavon Mickelson | July 24, 2015 at 10:22 pm 

It sure would be nice to have some access to the Police records on what they found out but they want to keep it all to themselves in case someone confesses and it will only be them and the kidnapper who know the same piece of information. Good Proof without a doubt but how many years do you keep it all secret everyone will be dead that cares anything about his abduction. Most of us would like to find out before everyone passes on. I am working on a 40 year old case right now on my own and can tell you that I know who the killer is so it is never too late.

45.  Jim | July 25, 2015 at 3:12 am 

there you go Donovan , from Tate and Jean the two main reason for believing a car was involved , I think that way myself but keep an open mind , I think that if he was on foot then I would look very closely at that half way house , is the house still there ? what is it like , how well was that place searched , did someone sneak out , could a serious breach have been covered up , what has that fellow in Arizona been up to since ? i read the house was petty close by . anyone ?

again on another thought , I would be very interested in any calls that came in to police later that night or the next day or so in surrounding areas , not 911 but suspicious stuff .

46.  Jim | July 25, 2015 at 11:04 am 

I agree with Donovan. at some point answers become more important than convictions , ay some point the answers or those who hold the keys to them will disappear
it is time for the information on the case to be released at least to a trusted independent investigation team , law enforcement needs to accountable too
how else does a community know if they are doing a good job,
im sure they are swamped , case get put on the back burner
25 years and counting , so why not let some independent and credible investigators take a look at the files , is all the can be done being done , are the knew tools available being used ? Sheriff the time has come

so Ryan Larson do you know the people from the squealing tire connection ?
is there something you want to add
say it here or it could be lost in the files

47.  Ryan Larson | July 25, 2015 at 12:41 pm 

Debbie,

To answer your questions in regards to a connection between Officer Decker and Jacob…there is none. The Stearns county sheriff’s office is very well aware of exactly what happened that night in Cold Spring. It can only be embarrassment that is keeping them from giving closure to Officer Decker’s family and the general public as well. Of course Officer Reiter also knows what happened that night but apparently does not feel that his account of what happened that night is any of the public’s business either. 

As everyone is well aware the Stearns county sheriff’s office seems to have quite a difficult time closing cases when it comes to missing/murdered citizens. I think this is a topic that certainly needs to be known and discussed amongst community members.

A short list of open cases I’ve compiled in a half hour:
-Murders of Mary Reker (age 15) and her sister Susan Reker (age 12) 09/02/1974
-Murder of Assistant Postmaster Ivend Olgar Holen (age 60) 05/13/1976
-Murder of 81 year old Myrtle Cole 12/10/1981
-Missing persons case of Cynthia Mae Schmidt (age 18) and Ronnie Leo Bromenschenkel (age 26) 08/06/1986
-Abduction and sexual assault of Jared S. 1/13/1989
-Abduction of 11 year old Jacob Wetterling 10/23/1989
-Murder of Herbert Fromelt (age 82) 08/03/1994
-Missing person case of Joshua Guimond 11/10/2002
-Murder of Officer Tom Decker 11/29/2012

Every year law enforcement agencies put together their numbers in what’s known as the Uniform Crime Report and the numbers are compiled by the Mn BCA. In the year 2013, for part 1 crimes (violent crimes against people) the Stearns county sheriff’s office numbers were:
382 part 1 crimes reported
47 of those crimes were cleared
A grand total of 12% of violent crimes were cleared
To compare the Wright county sheriff’s offices’ 2013 clearance rate of part 1 crimes is 32%, which is were one would expect to see a sheriff’s office that has/or should have the resources at their disposal to achieve those numbers. Just a topic well worth discussing in my opinion.

If anyone is interested in seeing how law enforcement is performing in the area in which you live, Uniform Crime Reports contain a treasure trove of information and can be found here: 

https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/bca/bca-divisions/mnjis/Pages/uniform-crime-reports.aspx

48.  Tate | July 25, 2015 at 3:06 pm 

I think that after watching forensic files lol, that they always say in cold cases there is overlooked evidence or facts until one determined detective finds them out then solves the case, there is always something that links the perps indentity at the crime scene, always, just have to find the missing key?

49.  sanda | July 25, 2015 at 3:25 pm 

Agree

50.  Donavon Mickelson | July 25, 2015 at 10:51 pm 

Good Report Ryan; just as a sidenote; we had a Mayor who had been arrested twice for window peeping and he wanted to put our department down. Our clearance rate was in the high 70’s percent, much higher than the State average and he said we should be more like Sibley County as they had 100% clearance of their crimes. The facts were that Sibley County, at that time, only reported the crimes they solved and none of the others. I guess any department can have a good clearance record then. LOL

51.   Derek | July 25, 2015 at 11:27 pm 

If the abductor was on foot then why did he walk all the way up Rassier’s driveway after abducting Jacob? The on foot theory only works if Rassier is the abductor. And I shouldn’t have to point out the flaws in that theory. Plus the foot prints only go so far and then they stop and don’t veer off toward either side of the driveway. Indicating that he most likely got into a vehicle. And we know that Kevin drove fairly haphazardly all the way up and down Rassier’s driveway because neither him nor his girlfriend knew that it was a driveway and the cops hadn’t yet sectioned off the area so Kevin likely destroyed a lot of evidence. Also a car like Jared described was chasing two boys who lived north of Rassier’s house earlier that summer. If the same guy attacked Jared in cold spring and attacked and attempted to attack several kids in Paynesville one can only assume that he has a car at that point. And at the very least was likely using it in every attack and just parked it. I think the focus should be on st. cloud and possibly the red carpet. He mentioned the red carpet and I am pretty sure there is a Pontiac dealership that has been in the area longer than the abduction. Also he attacked at night and in the downtown areas yet never attacked in st. cloud or waite park despite never going outside the county. Also he broke his pattern with Jacob. St. Joseph is the only town he attacked that didn’t have a school. And Jacob just so happen to go to school in st. cloud and was wearing a shirt that said st. cloud on it. And the abductor had been at the middle school in Paynesville and had asked one of his victims what grade he was in after the attack. What makes more sense him going to a school and following kids to their houses then coming back later at night? Or him randomly showing up at night and just so happening upon kids when they are near their home sometimes even being in their apartment buildings waiting for the victim to come home? Or that he just so happen to abduct Jacob when there was three boys and he doesn’t have to pick one. He literally did not have to choose one over the other. If he had a car like he did in Jared’s abduction then he could have fit all three. Here’s an example: Joseph Duncan murdered most of the Groene family abducted the youngest boy and girl then later murdered the boy and was caught having breakfast at Denny’s. There was no and is no handbook for pedophiles that says they only have to take one at a time. Why not kill both the boys and then leave with Jacob? I mean where are you drawing the line? I mean if he’s a killer how come he hasn’t killed anyone. Which means that whoever the abductor is they must have managed to keep Jacob hidden for this long or as long as it would take him to age to an adult. I have read one of the investigators even mention that people would call in saying they saw Jacob but who they described was a child and he was and is no longer a child. And I don’t think the age progression is accurate at all and other than that what is there really for people to go off of. Some blurry pictures of Jacob smiling really big and squinting you can barely make out what color his eyes are in those pictures let alone sit there and try to age the picture in your head. I don’t think any thing was overlooked back then I think things are being overlooked today.

52.   Jim | July 26, 2015 at 11:57 am 

Derek I believe a on foot theory works for Dan and also the guys in the halfway house for sex offenders , but I agree it is very hard to go with the on foot theory when everything points to Jacob being taken to a car in the driveway
but why did the police seem to change there direction because of Kevin’s story ,the whole tire track story is ???? we read the tire where installed on the car locally , the fbi makes a cast yet never finds kevin’s girlfriends car to investigate , and Kevin waits 11 years to say anything ? and the other with him ? who knew he drove there ? a conspiracy to keep quiet , why when you have witnesses that would verify you were not the abductor , they were eating dinner with the mother at the time the call came in, so ??????

I have a theory that kinda works for some of this case but I will say first it is just a theory please remember that
to be outlined in a new post later today

53.   Donavon Mickelson | July 26, 2015 at 1:55 pm 

The on foot theory only works if Rassier is the abductor. And I shouldn…t have to point out the flaws in that theory.

Derek: Please point out the flaws in the theory that Rassier is the abductor! This investigator would like to know those so I can completely put him out of my mind.

54.   Tate | July 26, 2015 at 3:08 pm 

However the Perp got away there is something at the crime scene that is being over looked, there is no such thing as a perfect crime, the key to finding out what happened to Jacob is there it just takes that one determined detective to uncover the truth about what happened to jacob wetterling?

55.   Jim | July 26, 2015 at 4:11 pm 

getting back to my last post , I have never been able to understand why Kevin just didn’t come forward right away
he gives his reasoning in Kevin’s story I believe and probably telling the truth , question lead to theory and that all this is with zero evidence
this has to do with the car or on foot debate and just trying to put pieces together ,what could have happened
our man chester the molester the Paynesville suspect brazen or desperate enough to grab a kid in front of others and one time doing as little as walking up and putting his hand in a kids pocket . he is willing to take a big chance even for that .
but yet so far at least never kept or killed anyone as far as we know
so if we go with it is him who did this and he is on foot and didn’t take Jacob away from the area then where is he
the only other people we know where there at some point near the right time are the police Dan and Kevin and his girl friend
so is it possible that an unfortunate accident happened the same night . did it need to need covered up
did chester just take Jacob up the driveway some and then disappear when the police went by

I doubt any of this to be right , Kevin says he went to the store afterwards and that does not fit if it is true and timing correct
just would have made a lot more sense to come forward right away

56.   Ryan Larson | July 26, 2015 at 7:38 pm 

Donavon,

Thank you for your confirmation that law enforcement agencies do not always tell the truth. I’ve been aware of this for sometime however. I’ve read a good number of your comments from different sources online. I have to say I’m a little disappointed that a former police chief would make some of the comments you have in the past. What right do you or anyone else have to make public accusations not backed up by facts and evidence? You do realize that some of the comments you’ve made, do violate the state laws of defamation don’t you? Being you seem to have the perpetrator pegged as being the obviously innocent man in the farmhouse near the scene, could you please tell me how the perp and Jacob traversed the remaining 1600 feet of driveway that remain after the last footprint from Jacob, a footprint that points in a southerly direction nonetheless, which is in a direction that goes away from the farmhouse?

57.   Derek | July 27, 2015 at 1:10 am 

I will tell you the Rassier flaws. The description of the abductor given by Trevor and Aaron does not match up with how anyone in this world would describe Rassier. Rassier has like a speech impediment and I don’t say that to be mean at all that may come off as a mean thing mostly because I am mean most of the time but I had a speech impediment when I was younger said my s sounds with my tongue rather than my teeth. Go watch the interview video of him talking to some reporter woman and listen to how he talks now aside from how he talks its also his volume he is not a deep voiced man at all.
How he looks
How he talks
The fact that he would have had to have been pretty much at the end of his driveway to have seen the boys go by which seems weird since he would have had to think about going to bed in order to work the next day. Rassier has a pretty good work ethic and he is quite involved and despite being a suspect him and his parents have helped out and been harassed. He could have moved anywhere in the world where no one knew he was associated to a kidnapping and continued kidnapping and molesting kids if that’s what he was all about. The one thing he couldn’t have done was hide Jacob at his house or dispose of the body. They searched his car and dug up his house no one has ever accused him of anything prior or after which never happens. Look at Cosby or Sandusky anytime there is a scandal of the sexual offense nature there is always more than one crime. Just like this case there is Jared and the Paynesville victims. Speaking of Jared if his case is linked to Jacob’s how come he didn’t recognize Rassier hmm. What are the odds that two different people speak the same way and use the same dialogue and commit the same crime?

58.   Derek | July 27, 2015 at 1:34 am 

Why is anyone even listening to what Kevin has to say Kevin didn’t show up until way later. He wasn’t a witness at all to anything. The abductor wouldn’t have been up at the tom thumb at that time no that is insanity. And Kevin didn’t go there until he heard something on the police scanner and nothing went off on the police scanner until the boys got back told the baby sitter the babysitter told her father and her father called the police then the dispatch came over the scanner in all that time even if the abductor did go to the tom thumb right after the abduction he wouldn’t have still been there at the time Kevin showed up. Its simple math really. These are reasons I get mad because people read what he said about the man at the tom thumb without ever really thinking about it all. They just accept everything and deny nothing. And let me tell you it does not work like that.

59.   Derek | July 27, 2015 at 12:52 pm 

The halfway house doesn’t work either because if there was a halfway house where pedophiles lived and it was located in st joseph why are there all those Paynesville cases and Jared’s case. And the abductor still wouldn’t have walked up Rassier’s driveway with Jacob if they were just going to go back to a halfway house. That and they probably located and questioned every single pedophile that had ever lived in that house. And there crimes didn’t add up. And if something had happened to Jacob how does that something effect the abductor’s ability to go out and abduct or molest another kid. If the abductor were in prison wouldn’t he be a suspect wouldn’t there be an article on this blog talking about him like there was with Delbert Huber. Seems to me like there would anyone with any common sense can see that if he were in prison it would be for the same crime and he would likely have done said crime similar to these other crimes. Right? I mean we have connected Paynesville, Jared and Jacob all together based on the description and dialogue of the attacker so if the abductor had committed a crime and went to prison and has been there ever since he would have likely committed the same crime and in the same way and even if he did it differently he still would be a suspect especially if he lived anywhere in the county or in a neighboring county.

60.   Jim | July 28, 2015 at 8:26 pm 

Derek we have a probable connection in Jacob’s case to Jared’s and maybe Paynesville ,nothing here is definite except Jacob is missing

61.   Tate | July 28, 2015 at 10:37 pm 

I believe there is still something overlooked at the crime scene that takes investigators closer to the abductor and the where abouts of Jacob Wetterling.

62.   Jim | July 29, 2015 at 2:08 pm 

a couple of questions ,is it true the police did not know about the halfway house for over a year ? does anyone know ?
also the sock that was found , what do we know about that , where exactly was it found , was it Jacob’s or not ?

63.   Derek | July 30, 2015 at 2:41 am 

I have found clothes all over the place out in the woods in the parking lot of where I work. I really doubt the sock belonged to Jacob. I mean even if it did I doubt it was the sock he was wearing when he was abducted. How did he lose the sock but not his shoe? 

64.   Derek | July 30, 2015 at 11:34 am 

Sorry Jim I don’t have the proof its not his sock so what do I know maybe the abductor has a foot fetish. Maybe Donovan’s right and it is Rassier. I would like to know what evidence points to Rassier at all. Can anyone answer that? What evidence points to the halfway house? See I have yet to name a name or accuse anyone. So perhaps I don’t know what I am talking about maybe I need to get on all your levels. Clearly by what I was told before nothing is irrelevant so the sock must be the key to solving this whole case…

65.   Bill | July 30, 2015 at 2:36 pm 

Apparently Dan Rassier must have owned a hover board. Based on people accusing Dan of abducting Jacob he would have had to have scooped him up and floated all the way back to his house. That’s the only way to explain the lack of Jacob’s prints continuing up the driveway. 

Let’s look at the real facts of the case. Dan Rassier has an impeccable record at ROCORI Middle School, where he had/has taught for 30+ years. He has never once been accused of molesting children. He has taught thousands of hours (along with private lessons) and not one single person EVER has noted that he has acted inappropriately. 

On October 22nd, 1989 Dan had the greatest crime in the history of Minnesota committed on his driveway. His property was dug up over 5 years ago and the Stearns County Sheriff’s Department is waiting for “technology” to evolve in order to run tests on items secured from his property. This is the same enforcement agency that has failed to solve the case of missing St Johns student Joshua Guimond, the missing person cases of Ronnie Bromenschenkel & Cynthia Schmidt and the murder case of Susanne and Mary Reker. This agency also refuses to close the case on the Officer Tom Decker shooting, even though the murder weapon has been found and suspect is dead. 

Does anyone really think this department is capable of solving the Jacob Wetterling abduction? The county had an opportunity to elect a new Sheriff last year and failed to do so.

66.   Bill | July 30, 2015 at 2:42 pm 

The reason some people are vile with you is that you state you’re just a mom looking to help another mom find her child, but somehow you’re above communicating directly with some of the regular folks. If you truly are just another person trying to help Patty why do you not communicate directly with others attempting to do the same? I was in Jared’s class at school and Dan was my band teacher, yet I openly chat with anyone and everyone about the case and don’t act like I’m somehow above others. Open your line of communication up.

67.   Josh | July 30, 2015 at 2:54 pm 

One question I’d like to know is how come all the suspects who were looked at in this case, their names were not part of any media coverage?

68.   Derek | July 30, 2015 at 7:00 pm 

Because Josh you get a lot of crazy people who cannot control themselves and may act irrational if given a suspects name. Hell I might even be one of those people but I like to think I can control myself… I say this because Dan Rassier has gotten death threats. Going after the wrong person isn’t going to solve this case. Suspects could be anyone. For one, if one of those said suspects who wasn’t really the abductor got a little ruffled by having their name posted for the entire world to see they could sue the hell out of the department and bye bye any law enforcement that could solve the case. The cops would be writing tickets on bicycles. Bill I think we’re on the right page great minds think alike. Its nice to see another person on here with some common sense.

69.   Debbie | July 30, 2015 at 10:42 pm 

My intuition tells me that Joy is a “gatherer” of facts. Just because she has not responded to one of our posts, does not mean she has not heard us. Be patient. The most important facts for her to gather, would come from the “Locals” who were the eyes and ears of this community back in 1989.

70.   Debbie | July 30, 2015 at 11:59 pm 

Jim, I am very glad that Kevin came forward, after so many years, with the information he was willing to share. I am left with many questions myself…
I wonder if there is any chance that Joy could ask him to join this blog conversation.

71.   Derek | July 31, 2015 at 2:07 am 

I think its funny that they said Dan Rassier was talking weird on a 911 phone call the night of the abduction but when he asked them to produce said phone call they didn’t have it anymore. If it was so important and it was the entire basis of making him a suspect why not keep that?

72.   Jamie | July 31, 2015 at 4:06 am 

Is their any new leads on the phone call from Forrest Illinois? Did any of the police search out the sex offenders there?

73.   sanda | July 31, 2015 at 2:31 pm 

Bill you have just read my mind. I completely agree with you. 100%!!!!

74.   Donavon Mickelson | August 1, 2015 at 2:27 am 

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT DEREK! If they had a 911 call from Rassier that night, it is very important and should have been saved. I will not believe it has been disposed of by any Law Enforcement Officer with any sense. They better dig them out.

75.   Tate | August 1, 2015 at 1:44 pm 

There is is something from the crime.scene that is being overlooked. All it takes is that one determined investigator to uncover the truth of the where abouts of Jacob Wetterling?

76.   Debbie | August 2, 2015 at 12:01 am 

Tate, your comments intrigue me. Was there anything found at the crime scene, beside, two bikes and a scooter? Anything? I would imagine there could have been/SHOULD HAVE BEEN, many things found along a “lovers lane parking spot” (Rassiers driveway) and the road next to “party spot in the woods”. Any items found (even a cigarette butt) should have been saved as potential evidence.

77.   Jim | August 2, 2015 at 10:44 am 

Jared thanks for your comment ,glad to hear you seem to be dealing with all this well. you commitment to finding answers and helping still in Jacobs case is admirable
I think of course there is a lot of frustration with the seemingly lack of progress in the case or cases .
I am sure most or all who visit this site only want to be of some assistance
you mentioned the billboards , a great idea ,
one of the knew tools available is where I am now , the internet , social media
I assume earlier on in the case the police had some questions , persons of interest they don’t know , for example the brown station wagon they were looking for
maybe they want to know who could have owned an old junky car like that in the Paynesville attacks ,
is there some tidbit of information they need , put it out there again
give us a question to pass around ay warp speed compared to 1989

78.   joy.the.curious | August 3, 2015 at 7:21 pm 

Well said, Jared. Thank you.

Sometimes I think what people fail to understand is that we LIVE here. We have families, and kids. If we don’t share everything we know, it’s because we’ve either been asked not to, or because we’ve had to make a judgment call based on any number of factors.

It’s easy to discredit law enforcement, throw suspects’ names to the wind, or make wild accusations when you can hide behind a fake screen name. It’s a lot harder to actually get out there and do the work. So, please, be kind.

79.   Derek | August 3, 2015 at 7:54 pm 

My name is Derek David Mitchell I live in Clare, MI. I am 25 years old and I have a minimum wage job at a dollar store. I am sorry that I don’t live in the area. But in no way am I hiding. And my motivations are entirely selfish – I want Jacob to be found alive. So the only thing I can do is type on here and the whole anonymous aspect is all in how the blog was set up. I used Duke because I was watching Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas and the character Duke is based off Hunter S Thompson a writer I thought it was fitting. If you don’t want people to be anonymous than don’t have it set up that way.

80.   Ryan Larson | August 4, 2015 at 12:40 am 

I don’t think it’s fair to the public to say that they…we…I are discrediting law enforcement when their numbers and track record speak for them. It’s horrendous! Spending $29 million a year, I personally expect more. Like I mention earlier, Stearns county clears only 12% of part 1 crimes according to the 2013 Uniform Crime Report. Compare that to the national average clearance rate of part 1 crimes being 33.3%. They deserve the criticism,,,period. How many of you commenting here would still have a job if you only managed to complete 12%of your work??? Facts are facts. I just don’t see the law enforcement agency in charge of this investigation capable of getting the answers. By all means to the Stearns County Sheriffs office, please, prove me wrong.

81.   Ryan Larson | August 4, 2015 at 12:50 am 

MN Statute 13.82……

1539 days to find out the truth

82.   Donavon Mickelson | August 4, 2015 at 1:23 pm 

Ryan; help is definitely needed in that dept. in order to improve on those stats.

83.   Derek | August 4, 2015 at 4:31 pm 

Criticism is good not bad. I may be mean but it is because I see improvement if I thought you were useless I would have never said anything I wouldn’t even come on this blog. You aren’t going to find me commenting on other sites that pertain to this case because those sites are crap. Half their information is off this site anyway. This isn’t me picking fights with random strangers this is me giving constructive criticism to a long distance acquaintance (like that one). I would rather someone point out my flaws so I can work to fix them rather than bottle it up and unleash it just to win points for their side of an argument. I will say this though I don’t think something within the investigation is the cause for why the case hasn’t been solved. There is not some rock that once turned over will reveal the truth. Nothing overlooked. I believe the abductor was not ever a suspect never even just a person of interest or a tip. Pretty hard for the cops to deal with all the tips and going back and double checking thousands of older tips to go around and look for someone they missed when there is nothing to go off of. I’m telling you the guy lived in st cloud. That’s why they didn’t find any of the cars. because they are and were looking for several different vehicles. And when you have 60,000 people not really sure how many cars that would be within the population but I imagine that its above 10,000. That and its been 25 years the abductor probably buys a new car every 5-10 years. If he in fact had the blue chevy celebrity/Pontiac 6000. Now if he owned one of those other rusty dirty older cars then perhaps the cars would be more useful. It would make sense than that he would still have one of those cars around if he in fact had like a 70s car at the time. But seeing as how Jared and two boys mentioned the blue car I would go with that. and I don’t think if the abductor did own two cars that he would have used both in a crime. And why use the newer car in the abductions instead of the other car if he had another car. No I think he only owned one car and no one ever saw it or if they did see it they couldn’t get anything more than he happen to own the same car as the one their looking for. I mean sorry you need a lot more than just that to even get probable cause for a search. They searched Rassier because he had footprints up his driveway it was probable cause enough to request a search. But if the abductor didn’t leave any evidence behind which he didn’t and all you found was his car and nothing else to connect him to the crime and he didn’t have a criminal record at all. And you had like 1,000 other tips to look at you would move on. They only had one vehicle to look for when they found Ben Ownby in 2007 and it was a detailed description of Devlin’s truck. They didn’t have any others so even when the investigators had their doubts about the witness account of the vehicle they had NO CHOICE NO OTHER OPTION. And guess what that case got solved 4 days after it happened. And it ended up solving another case. Tips are good yes but what good is flooding a case with tips if the tips are wrong.

84.   777 | August 5, 2015 at 1:47 am 

I’ve been following this blog for years and this case for many more years. This site and one other is the only place I consider serious enough to entertain fact-based discussions instead of the wildly imaginative theories that seem more interesting to many people. This is my first post and my first public communication about this case. I have a few points, which are basically reiterations, but I think which need to be embraced a bit more religiously if starting with what is factually known is a valued imperative. Although I long ago came to these main points, Joy fairly recently came to the same conclusions herself and put them in her blog:

1> It has long seemed certain to me that the person(s) who abducted Jacob, must have one -perhaps both- of these qualities:

~using Joy’s words from previous posts~ 

…………………………………….They either …………………………………………..
(I) saw the boys on the way to rent the video and ALSO KNEW Jacob would be returning down that dark road within 30 minutes or so. They knew the Tom Thumb plan. Somehow, they KNEW the boys weren’t on a one-way trip. 

………………………………………..and/or……………………………………………

(II) If it was someone who saw them at the Tom Thumb picking out a movie, that person had to have known who they were, where they lived, and where they were heading. If he was driving, he would have had to hurry to get ahead of them, stash his car, pull a mask over his head, and position himself covertly without being seen.

==THEREFORE==

2> The primary criminal here is either
……….a. Someone who knew Jacob and where he lived and in a very opportunistic way spotted him at the Tom Thumb – and then grabbed him on his way home through pretty quick and effective hiding and disguising.

or

……….b. Someone who -deliberately or accidentally- overheard the boys’ plans on their outbound trip and quickly acted upon it by their return trip.

or

……….c. the publicly-known POI in this case whose residence is part of the crime scene (if true – this POI may also qualify under 2a and/or 2b)
…
…
…
So, the person is either the main (publicly-known) POI or a person who was for some reason near the boys’ route and heard them talk – or someone who recognized Jacob at the Tom Thumb.

I think all this talk about the actual named identity of the unknown subject we’re all looking for must be more religiously confirmed into either 2a or 2b above – unless of course the criminal is 2c. Speculating about identities is just pulling names out of a hat unless you have a reason to put them into category 2a or 2b. I have many doubts that the most well known POE is the criminal here, but lets admit (out of what is known publicly) he is the only one with the certain opportunity to pull this off.

I don’t agree with unlikely scenarios and I discount far-fetched explanations that overcome the basic logistical parameters in play this night – which is centered on the fact that the boys were spotted sometime before they were abducted, but probably only about :30 before they were abducted.

I know there is nothing particularly new in what I’m saying – except to say that keeping these essential attributes in mind are required of any potential solution or identity offered. They must be able to fit into a very narrow pigeonhole of time and place. I think the basic ~30 minutes to an hour time frame and physical (geographic) parameters of this case are the only real facts we (those without access to other evidence) have to work with so everything else is pure speculation. 

Name all the bad people in the area or even the country you want: the only relevant discussion is who is known to fit into either 2a/b/c above. 

Tell me where I’m wrong. 

777

85.   Donavon Mickelson | August 5, 2015 at 2:41 am 

Some good points made but we also know that if people have to prove their “tip” before they call them in, they will not call any in. I have just solved a 40 year old murder case that I worked on for only 3 months part-time and it was due to common sense and looking at what was there and not just guessing about all the people it could be. A person does not need a record to be a suspect. That person might never have been caught before and very smart in how he operated. I know several people who have gotten off without getting a speeding ticket due to how nice they talked and when the officers ran a record check on them, it came back with no arrests. If the first arrest is never made of that person, the other officers think that he must be a good driver all of the time. Much like the murder down our way, I feel the killer will be from that immediate area. If a person can’t imagine this is what happened to Jacob, then you better pull your head out of the sand or take a class in what happens to abducted children.

86.   Ryan Larson | August 5, 2015 at 11:54 am 

Where you are going wrong is by not looking at facts and evidence. Compiling your assumptions of what must have happened is not going to get a conviction and is not in any way fair to the “POI” that you speak of.

Let me go over some facts for you:
1) There is a house that is closer to the abduction site than the farmhouse you speak of. This house also has an unobstructed view of the road, whereas in the farmhouse, you cannot see the road.
2) There were many sightings of individuals and vehicles that did not belong in the area in the weeks and days leading up to the abduction.
3) A deep raspy voice that the other 2 boys describe as hearing most certainly does not fit your “POI”, or as I prefer to say, the obviously innocent man in the farmhouse.
4)Footprint evidence at the scene shows Jacob was taken away in a vehicle.
5)The total length of the farmhouse driveway is approx. 1700 feet. Jacob’s prints are shown to traverse only 120 feet of that driveway.
6) Jacob’s last print is undoubtedly pointing in a southerly direction which would be going away from the farmhouse.
7) Jacob’s last footprint stops well short of the side edge of the driveway, which in turn indicates he was put into a vehicle.
8) A neighbor reports hearing tires squealing at approx. 9 pm. Eight years later a man on the Stearn Truth tapes, who admits being a part of this, states he also heard tires squealing during the abduction. How does someone who has no business being in that neighborhood hear the same thing as a neighbor near the abduction site

I would be more than willing and also very interested in any direct evidence that you can provide that points to the obviously innocent man in the farmhouse.

87.   Ryan Larson | August 5, 2015 at 12:29 pm 

I forgot to mention the most important facts involving the obviously innocent man in the farmhouse….

This man has undergone hypnosis and lie detector tests by his own free will in trying to help.
The sheriff’s office has also conducted 3 searches of this farmhouse including the last destructive search that by all means was unconstitutional being a detectives “hunch” in no way shape or form constitutes probable cause.
-Zero, evidence found!

Donavon, I love the way you skate around the question I asked you July 26th….embarrassed? I would be…

88.   Lonnie Davis | August 5, 2015 at 12:31 pm 

I also have followed this case from day 1. Joy don’t worry about the haters there is always a percentage of the population that no one can make happy. You are doing a fantastic job. I believe that all of the incidents in that area are connected to the large pedophile population at St. Johns. (Again its my personal opinion). They will never give you access to their vehicle or resident records. I pray that somehow you will find the answer. Lonnie

89.   777 | August 5, 2015 at 2:52 pm 

Hi Ryan, thanks for responding to my post. Your main focus seems to be on defending the POI you call the ‘innocent man in the farmhouse.’ That’s fine and in some ways I admire you for defending a man’s inherent presumption of innocence. 

I don’t like bandwagon justice and I am always suspicious of conventional wisdom decided by collective, so by all means please do bring up other plausible suspects if you have them. Or continue to point out tidbits that point away from the man in the farmhouse. It’s very obvious many who look at this case get emotionally invested in their favorite explanation and then unfortunately start aggressively defending it by confronting others who disagree with them. I’m not sure that’s productive, are you? 

I don’t see anything you offered that is exculpatory to the most well known POI here and in any case the unknown subject still has to fit into the points I’ve labeled above 2a/b/c. In other words the person who took Jacob had to see them going to the video store (or, less likely, while actually at the video store) -AND- this person must have known they would be returning down this same road.

The cars, tracks, raspy voice etc. you mention do arguably offer hints at the identity of the unknown subject. But they do not eliminate the logistical requirements in this case which are quite narrow: This is someone who in a very short time frame saw the boys going TO the Tom Thumb (or while there) and knew exactly when they were coming back, and also was very quickly able to secure a gun, disguise, hiding place and perform a very effective escape – confidently leaving two witnesses who were certain to bring the cops around within minutes.

In sum, the focus for me is only publicly-known facts connecting a suspect to the crime scene, I’m not interested in speculating about others within a 5- 50- or 5000- mile radius who ever in their life previously have abduction/child molesting histories. In my view the population of candidates with a known connection to that very very narrow time frame and very obscure location –which allows knowledge that the boys are both coming and going — must be the be quite small and revealing. 

Unfortunately for your goal in defending the ‘innocent man in the farmhouse,’ the well known POI here is the only publicly known person that satisfies the essential time and location parameters required of the abductor. 

BTW, Joy’s work around the party place is the most promising lead I’ve ever seen to finding someone else who can also satisfy the essential time/place parameters in play that night.

777

90.   Derek | August 5, 2015 at 4:14 pm 

777 you are forgetting that in tidbits it mentions the abductor down Jacob’s road before. And that the abductor could have been on Jacob before the actual attack. So he already has the disguise and hiding place ready. It was dark when they left so they wouldn’t have seen the abductor in Rassier’s driveway. Why did he wait you ask? Because he let the other boys go and he knew they were coming back. How many people make plans to go over to someone’s house at 9 at night and by people I mean young kids? And I think the abductor wanted people to know about the attacks. He could have only attacked single boys and never have any witnesses and he could attack during the day which would give him a larger window of time and in remote locations where no one would see or even presume where the actual abduction took place. I mean if he would have killed Jared and disposed of his body they wouldn’t be able to confirm he was kidnapped no one saw it. Even if it got connected to Jacob’s it wouldn’t be as strong of a connection not enough to mention. Why does the abductor have to be someone who had a reason or lived right near the attacks? Garrido lived 2 hours away from where he abducted Jaycee Lee Dugard. Devlin lived an hour away from both his victims. I don’t think the abductor had a reason or lived in all three areas he abducted. I defend my position strongly because I believe I am right. And no one not anyone has even come close or even attempted to find anything or say anything that could change my mind. I think the abductor stalked his victims at their school and followed them home. That’s why he always seems to be in ambush points rather than in a following scenario because he already did the following and then came back for the ambush. Devlin got into his car and drove an hour out of the way and found Shawn and FOLLOWED HIM and hit him with his car. He was BEHIND HIM. The boys NEVER SAW A CAR OR A PERSON ON THEIR WAY TO THE STORE. Wouldn’t it make more sense that he ALREADY KNEW WHERE THEY LIVED and waiting there. He was probably already waiting there when they left the house to the store seeing as how they had never left the house before. AND HE DOESN’T HAVE TO KNOW THEY ARE EVEN COMING BACK. If he ends up sitting there for another hour and they don’t show up he will just leave and try again another day. Your logic is there but you didn’t think about it enough you gave a criminal rules to follow you assume he had to know all these things that he wouldn’t to know in fact he wouldn’t even need to know exactly which house he lived at just that it was beyond Rassier’s driveway. Maybe that’s as far as he was willing to tail the wetterling car or the school bus. This isn’t a poorly written lifetime movie this is real life get a little creative and start thinking like a criminal.

91.   Ryan Larson | August 5, 2015 at 4:20 pm 

I don…t see anything you offered that is evidence of guilt towards the obviously innocent man in the farmhouse. However I do see assumptions. I lived between the Wetterling house and Tom Thumb the day of the abduction, I suppose I am a suspect too????

I welcome all dialogue as I feel this is the only hope this case has to be solved. Approaching 100 posts is awesome. Please don’t confuse my strong feelings that people should concentrate on the facts vs. what their gut says or what they think is logical as me confronting others. I simply asked to give me one piece of evidence that would suggest the obviously innocent man in the farmhouse’s guilt please.

I would invite you and everyone else to read the link I’ve posted below. It details what falsely labeling an individual can do to them. Being I myself been subject to this situation, I can attest that this article I have posted is spot on. 

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/lazarus/20050526.html

92.   Julie Tremp | August 5, 2015 at 4:36 pm 

I agree with Ryan, in that not all the facts are being considered. There’s information for law enforcement to be looked at, but isn’t. Efforts have been made by someone, and over a very long period of time. There’s private detectives that have the same knowledge of these very important pieces to the puzzle.

These private detectives have backed this person up, along with a cop from another county. I believe we need to think with our own heads, and not listen to what people try to put into our heads about another person. Talking directly with that person is a good way to learn the truth. Unfortunately, I don’t see this ability in many people, and thus they can’t work together in harmony to find out what happened to Jacob. I’m guilty of going under a different name, fearing that perhaps someone was saying I’m not a credible person, but I don’t care now. If anyone is stupid enough to not speak directly to the source, then you’re going to walk around knowing only half the story, half the information, and no facts.

We all have a right to our opinions, and hope those opinions lead to facts. We all have a right to be heard, as long as we’re not being hateful. There’s evidence out there that can prove some of LE in Stearns County have not done their job. There’s proof of serious problems within Stearns County.

I’m far from being an expert, but I’ve spoken with many who’ve helped educate me, and I’ve learned a lot. I know what this person has is very important, and it will expose a lot. Before I ever spoke with anyone in Stearns County, I already had a crash course in cover-ups, and dealt with some very obstructive people. 

I hope that people can all work together in this. I know there’s trust issues, and we must keep in mind why it ever became an issue, and maybe look in the mirror ourselves and do an inventory of our own shortcomings. I see too much ego in this, and not enough heart. I see people unable to think for themselves, and believe in their own instincts. I’m concerned people just listen to BS, and don’t even get to the level of using their instincts.

Always listen to all sides of the story. Consider looking in other directions.

93.   renee | August 5, 2015 at 4:37 pm 

I’m behind Lonnie. The odds just add up. When you have that many pedophiles in one area, one of them is going to kidnap. They have so much land up there and access to even more. It would also explain the areas the attacks happened. A priest can travel from small town to small town in an area and he wouldn’t seem out of place. What do the attacks all have in common? Cold Spring, St. Jo, Avon….. A catholic church, my friends. Also, it’s a fact that the Abbey covered up for priest’s abuse for decades.. I am willing to bet that the church is going to have to start to sell off some land to cover the cost for the court cases. Then we will find Jacob.

94.   Derek | August 5, 2015 at 4:49 pm 

You know what will solve this case more billboards in st.cloud with better age progression and an age progessed picture or description of the abductor. Asking people if they know about a 60-70 year old man who’s lived in the area for more than 25 years and lives with a 37 year old man who they’ve never seen go to work. Focus on areas close to the red carpet not just because he mentioned that but also because that is the area of st. cloud that fits into a different school district and its a lot less likely that anyone Jacob went to school with lived in that area of st. cloud since they wouldn’t have gone to the same school. Also 777 take three people give one a scooter and the other two a bike and take the same route with a stopwatch and tell me how long that would take if you all are maintaining the same speed. Then add up your number and tell me just how small a window of opportunity that is.

95.   777 | August 5, 2015 at 6:56 pm 

Ryan, again your interest seems mainly in defending the well known POI. 

That’s fine, but I’m not interested in defending or accusing anyone. You’re responses suggest I’ve made a determination about guilt or innocence, but I haven’t. All I am doing is suggesting those with access to only the publicly known facts start with these and go backwards. Start at the narrowest end of the funnel and move up. Most are starting with the wrong end of the funnel – they are starting with the universe of previously known criminals and trying to fit past crimes and criminals into Jacob’s case. Most are starting with something like, “who in the neighborhood/county/state/country has a history of this type of thing” – and then they start picking their favorite suspects, it seems to me in large part based on their own pet biases and personal histories. 

I say this typical approach is wrong, or at best very disorganized. I say start at the logistical requirements of the abduction as made known to the public. THEN, try to find those who can fit into this small physical area and approx. one hour time frame. 

The logistical parameters of this crime are inherently tight which makes it incumbent that the unknown subject fits into a very very narrow band of people who saw the boys coming down the street AND KNEW they would be coming back. This is an incredibly narrow 2 sets of requirements: time -around an hour- and place -somewhere along the long dark road.

Yes, since it was asked, when I see a group of children going down the street I have no idea whether they are coming, going or on a one-way journey to a friends house, or a perhaps a roundtrip journey back home – nor do any strangers in any area. As Joy has already determined, this means the essentials of what I am saying is true: the unknown criminal saw the kids leave down the road and knew they were coming back. Or, less likely, they saw the kids at the Tom Thumb and knew where the kids were headed afterwards. Not many people can fit in this pigeonhole of seeing the kids before they start their return journey.

The well known POI is the only publicly known person that fits this pigeonhole of time and place. There are probably others. But they have not been made known. I have nothing for or against the POI and I don’t think there is much more he could have done to show his innocence. So, Ryan, who ELSE do you have that saw the boys before their return home that night? 

Derek, I appreciate your response. I’m not sure if you want me to respond to you because your points aren’t exactly clear to me, but if you want a response let me know.

777

96.   Jim | August 5, 2015 at 8:26 pm 

777 I do not disagree with you on your ABC accept I the main POI is the very least likely of the 4 or 5 suspects you are said to be in the exact area and possibly even at the right time
we have the guys from Ryan’s squealing tires story connection. they were spotted there and could have still been around
we have a halfway house for sex offenders in it ,closer to the abduction site than Jacobs own house , how close was the supervision
and we have a guy who is locked up for sexual abuse of boys , he was down that road to drop of a kid near Jacobs house , apparently he has written some stuff in his diary about the case , how tight was his alibi ?

I suppose there could have been another stalker prowler sicko around , the guy with the station wagon maybe , maybe he sees the boys leave , 

the only way I see the main POI involved is some kind of secondary cover up so not to be blamed ,and I don’t give much chance to that
who would abduct a kid at the end of his own driveway and leave two others to go call 911, and the evidence points to a different scenario

777 I like the way you think
Derek I hope your right

97.   777 | August 5, 2015 at 10:40 pm 

Jim, thanks for addressing my post. 

I agree with you there are plenty of other people to look at in this case. But my main point is about starting with the required logistical parameters and going backwards. 

To me a lot of brainpower is WASTED in this case by:

……….1 Starting with a process of pick-your-favorite-local-child-molester, and
……….2 Begin imagining why he is likely to take Jacob, based on previous behavior, then,
……….3 Proceed in building hypotheticals and going on hunches to make this previously-documented criminal fit in with the facts. 

I say this way isn’t very helpful at this point. It is starting from the conclusion you want and making the facts fit it, I say that’s inefficient at best and a waste of time at worst. 

I say: Assume the unknown subject has no previous record, now who are you looking for? Which facts from that evening are you going to use to find the guy who took Jacob?
.
.
.

Start with the time and place requirements; start with the crime scene, and see what conclusion or suspects come from there based on who can fit in with the narrow parameters of time and place.

Since even mentioning the well known POI seems to get people emotionally reactive, I must say there are definitely a few clues from that night which could fit into a scenario which does NOT involve the most well known POI. But no clue eliminates him. Again, I make no judgments about guilt or innocence, but insofar as the public has been made aware it is only this gentlemen who has the verifiable time and place parameters satisfied to commit this crime. Does he have motive? No idea. Is there more evidence in this case related to this POI that is not public knowledge, perhaps also evidence that tends to exonerate him? Almost certainly – but no point speculating about what that might be.

Most everyone I’ve seen is focused on who has the motive. Well, every child molester in America does…and certainly a few people in the area have an interest in illegal sex with a child who have never been arrested, never suspected, because everyone is focused on MOTIVE instead of the crime scene and the facts it requires of the criminal in this case. It’s very possible this guy who took Jacob has no record whatsoever so all this suspect-naming based on previous convictions is a waste of time. This is the wrong way to start, the place to start is with who could fit into the very exclusive place – on 91st street- and who could be there this very quiet time at night.

Thanks again, Jim.

777

98.   Ryan Larson | August 5, 2015 at 10:49 pm 

777, I understand where you are coming from, I just don’t agree with starting out with a narrow mindset assuming that the perp was from the immediate area. I would start with an open mind of all options and slowly focus where the “evidence” tells me to. Like I said before, strangers were seen in the area in the weeks leading up to the abduction.
As I also stated before, the road cannot be seen from the farmhouse. So for you to say your “POI” seen the boys on their way to the store is an assumption. Your “POI” never once said he seen the boys going to the store. With your theory, myself and everyone else in the neighborhood should also be labeled POI’s.
You’re free to think as you will, but starting with a narrow focus, followed by an assumption, followed by another assumption, backed up with zero facts, does not sound like an approach that I think is fair, and certainly not the way I am going to look at things. I’m a facts and numbers guy, see it for myself, straight from the horse’s mouth, backed up by facts one might say.

99.   jamie | August 6, 2015 at 12:32 am 

Whoever this freak was that took Jacob probably keeps track of all the news about the case. Hopefully someday he’ll slip up and say something to someone that no one but the kidnapper would know, and hopefully that person will notice.

100. Derek | August 6, 2015 at 2:40 am 

I was saying if you read what I wrote that the abductor could already have known Jacob lived down that road and was there waiting for him. He didn’t have to see him then go and hide he was already hiding. There is no evidence to suggest he encountered them then decided to abduct them. No one recognized him and none of the boys saw a car. He was also seen down the same road before. You think that this guy magically showed up the moment Jacob left his house to go to the store and magically knew to hide at Rassier’s driveway. And all I am saying is that NO he knew he lived down that road and he waited for him just as he waited for his victims in Paynesville. He probably didn’t know the exact house only that it was beyond Rassier’s house. And he doesn’t have to know they are coming back. And by the way 777 you haven’t said anything at all you think the cops haven’t been trying to figure out who could have been down that road at that time. You don’t think the Wetterlings or Joy haven’t been trying to figure out who could have been there in that time frame all your doing is stating the obvious.

101. Clarence Dee | August 6, 2015 at 9:01 am 

Most all theories here have some truth to them. I am not going to reveal who I am because it is easier to hide behind Joy’s apron strings. But I am from New Jersey. I think the one about “Partiers in the Woods” diminishes after a while. I don’t think they could do anything but Id some boy being roughed up and put into a dirty old car. I don’t think the partiers had anything to do with it.
The guy in the tree with a notebook, I don’t think took place. But if it was planned and I think it was, it most likely was done in secret. All the articles I have been reading about Jacob and some others that have been abducted have that quality about them. 

The way other news reports have been worded Jacob was picked out from the others. The abductor told the others to run and not look back. Was Jacob picked out because someone wanted him for his own or was he the victim of a human trafficking plot?

When you stated you lived there and that you felt it was someone local, I would agree but that person had to have a plan because someone was teaching him how to plan and how to back out so as not to get caught. There are plenty of places to hide in Collegeville for a spell and then go back to their home state and no one would be the wiser.

102. Ryan Larson | August 6, 2015 at 10:59 am 

777,

This is the wrong way to start, the place to start is with who could fit into the very exclusive place – on 91st street- and who could be there this very quiet time at night.
– Well, every person in America….It’s a public road!

Long story short, you’re going to automatically exclude everyone who does not live in the neighborhood…..just because.

Ok 777…Thank you for your input. Another theory people can add to their thoughts if they wish.

103. amanda | August 6, 2015 at 11:16 am 

agreed with Derek. they should consider putting up more billboards of this sketch, a proper age progression, and mention a younger gentleman associated with him. someone needs to start putting the pressure back on this abductor and whoever assisted him.

104. 777 | August 6, 2015 at 11:36 am 

Ryan, thanks for addressing my post. The parameters around time and place I’ve listed above as 2/a/b/c are hardly just my assumptions, they are the obvious requirements of Jacob’s abductor based on the publicly known evidence of the crime scene, barring fantastic ideas like the use of a helicopter. The reason why I decided to finally say something in public about this is because I had made these conclusions long ago, but only recently realized that others have as well who have spent a lot more time looking at this case than I. Joy posted in her blog that the she realized the abductor must have seen the boys coming down the road AND KNEW they were returning (or seen them at the Tom Thumb and knew who they were and where they lived).

As for your statement that you and everyone else in the neighborhood should be looked at based on these points I make, I couldn’t agree more. Keep it in the neighborhood until something makes you want to look out of the neighborhood, and the only reason to look out of the neighborhood (based on strange cars etc.) is because of something people IN the neighborhood say. The people in the neighborhood are hugely important here, especially if you’re NOT starting with a previous crime nor previously known offender and trying to match them into Jacob’s case. BTW, I presume your age and a witness to your whereabouts that night (“alibi”) are the main two reasons why you and most people in the neighborhood need not receive any further scrutiny nor become an official POI.

Derek, thanks for making some points to me. You say the abductor could have already known Jacob lived down the road and was waiting for him and that he didn’t need to go and hide because he was already hiding. Hiding at 9pm on a Sunday night waiting for Jacob to come by? Not likely. Since Jacob had never been out of the house at night before and since this road is about the worst place anyone could think of to lie-in-hiding hoping for Jacob to show up at 9pm at night, I put this hypothesis in the category of far fetched. Every serious investigator of which I’m aware sees this case as more likely a crime of opportunity and probably not a targeted abduction, as do I, based on the facts of the crime scene. 

However, Derek, I very much agree that the abductor was hiding, deliberately or accidentally, when the boys were on their way TO the TomThumb. This is the only way he could have known they were coming back down this road a short time later. I do suggest very strongly that the abductor was not hanging around the road waiting to abduct Jacob or any other children, but for some reason he was on or near the road, hiding or otherwise unseen by the boys.

25 years of ASSUMING things like the person who snatched Jacob already is a known offender is one of the reasons this case is unsolved, IMO. Now, instead of starting with the goal of matching Jacob with some previous offender or some previous crime, I might suggest some brainpower be spent on who to look at if this person has never crossed the radar of law enforcement interest before. What facts are important to concentrate on if the person who took Jacob has no known record?

777

105. 777 | August 6, 2015 at 1:15 pm 

Ryan, this in response to your last post at 10:59. Thanks for addressing me.

In my view the place to start is absolutely who could be on that road at that very narrow time and place. It is not in my opinion correct to start with the identity of previous child molesters and go from there, which is so common. 

I say make no assumptions about the identity or motive of the abductor, start with only what is known: the abductor had to see the boys on their way to Tom Thumb or, less likely, on their way back. Who is likely to see the boys on their way to Tom Thumb? 

You are quite wrong to sarcastically suggest that a public road means everyone in America is now a likely suspect. I never argue for what is merely possible, I argue for what is PLAUSIBLE. Please think about this important distinction. A lot of theories are along the lines of being possible but highly improbable – like the theory that someone was camped out on this road waiting all night for Jacob to walk by, but didn’t grab him on first sight 

The only people who would likely be in or around such a lonely desolate dead-end road at 9pm on a Sunday evening are the people who lived on the road or had a plausible reason to be there, like they were visiting friends or family on that road. It is less likely that strangers from outside the area are on this road at this place, using this very exactly located crime scene. I don’t have the time and resources to look at less likely scenarios, I only look at likely. This is someone local or who had a very familiar affinity with the crime scene – they knew where to hide, where to go after the abduction and which way to send the other two boys running even though it was pitch black and they were likely wearing a black stocking/pantyhose. The mostly likely and most plausible solution is someone who knows this very precise area very well. Other solutions are possible, just less likely, and again my thinking is to focus on more instead of less likely. 

This is NOT as you say “we are going to excuse everyone in the neighborhood…just because” as you say. I’m not excluding anyone, and everyone from the cops to authors to Joy to serious investigators to a hundred amateurs on the internet have agreed with me that in all likelihood this is someone local – it isn’t “just because”. You obviously have some strong feelings about specific people who you think are innocent and guilty, I do not. If you don’t start with the conclusion you want – that so-and-so is innocent or that so-and-so is guilty, you are truly unbiased and that’s where I say to start. 

Again, where do you start if the abductor is not a previously known criminal?

777

106. 777 | August 6, 2015 at 1:26 pm 

CORRECTION to my above post of 1:15pm. Paragraph 3 should read 

“…… start with only what is known: the abductor had to see the boys on their way to Tom Thumb or, less likely, while they were actually at the Tom Thumb….”

I secifically deny it’s plausible that the abductor first encountered the boys on their way back from renting the video. They must have seen the boys sometime before they started their return trip.

777

107. 777 | August 6, 2015 at 1:36 pm 

2nd CORRECTION to my above post of 1:15pm (apologies for my typing error2)
Paragraph 6 should read

“…..It is not my point, as you suggest, that “we are going to excuse everyone who does not live in the neighborhood…..”

Again, I don’t have any preconceived ideas about the guilt or innocence of any specific named person. I focus entirely on attributes the abductor must likely possess based on the facts of the crime scene.

777

108. Tate | August 6, 2015 at 2:56 pm 

There is something that is being overlooked at the crime scene that will lead to the true where abouts of Jacob Wetterling.

109. Ryan Larson | August 6, 2015 at 3:29 pm 

777,

“…… start with only what is “”known””: the abductor “”had”” to see the boys on their way to Tom Thumb or, less likely, while they were actually at the Tom Thumb….”

“Had to” – Past tense of have _to hold in mind, sight, etc.: -to have doubts – or assume

I’m not here to try and prove my way of looking at things better than another. That’s why I said earlier, thanks for your input 777, dialogue is good. Good day

110. 777 | August 6, 2015 at 5:17 pm 

Hi Tate, I’ve noticed you make this same comment several times. What do you think might be overlooked?

777

111. Tate | August 6, 2015 at 6:02 pm 

777, idk, but I don’t think any of us have seen the police investigation files, they know more than us and hold physical evidence so I don’t know yet but there is something in there from that October 22 1989 day that holds the truth of the where abouts of Jacob wetterling. Some evidence has to be overlooked from that day, thanks.

112. sanda | August 6, 2015 at 6:55 pm 

I totally agree with you 777. It is very sad to think that 25 years have gone by believing that the abductor was a previous offender.(not) I also agree that the conversation has to keep going. We all have certain opinions and they are all valid until the real truth comes out one day. Thanks to Joy the conversation Will keep going. We should all be adults here cause after all we all want to find Jacob.

113. 777 | August 6, 2015 at 7:28 pm 

Hi Tate, thanks for answering my post. I really very much agree with you in a way because you are focusing on the evidence from the scene of the crime. I am sure there is quite a bit we in the general public don’t know which the police DO know. 

Everyone is of course free to criticize the police or the government, but unless I’m certain I know everything the police know I myself choose to not criticize their work. As you say, there may be facts or clues the police could discover if they would re-evaluate the evidence they already have, but since I don’t know everything they have, I personally share no reason to think they are missing something. 

I will just broadly say that given the 25 years with no solution, it seems worthwhile for everyone to start again from scratch because we’ve all by now adopted pet theories, preferred scenarios, and favorite suspects. I myself have been back and forth with many of the suspects in my mind as to whether I think they did it or not, so I’ve looked deeply into the half dozen or so well known men repeatedly mentioned as suspects in this case. But they’ve all been in the picture since almost day one, so this approach is not only ineffective, it’s probably hindering progress. 

Now I am asking some of us to look at the crime scene evidence as if this is the first day of the abduction. Forget about all the theories and start from the story of when and why the boys went out that night…build up the essential facts from the crime scene and use these to create the attributes of our suspect (or at least the type of suspect we are looking for… based only on what happens that night, and the evidence publicly disclosed from that night. Or that’s my approach anyway and I really hope a few people will join me in this mindset since everyone’s intuition, knowledge and strong points are different.

777

114. Jim | August 6, 2015 at 7:32 pm 

first off my name really is Jim and Joy would have my last name in my email address , I live far way in north central Ontario in the home of the big nickel so i am not really anonymous
I watched an episode of The Hunt one night and remembered seeing Jacob’s picture from the back off trailers
I end up on here ,the only site I have posted on ,and really the only time I have ever done anything like this
I tried doing some investigating on my own online , looking for similar cases MO ,looking at pictures reading info
one time I even sent in a tip , I felt a man arrested in Tenn. for sex crimes with children , a school photographer looked a lot like the picture Jennifer from the tom thumb help produce
for the most part though all I can do is run theory offer thoughts and ideas
or sometimes try to come up with theory that could answer some of the question that come up for me when I read some of the stories
I have posted several times and most of the times I believe I have tried to emphasise that it is just my thoughts theory and questions and not a accusation
777 you are right and logical I feel to want to start at the right place
I have never 100% eliminated tour main POI in my mind but that is mostly because I find some of his actions that night questionable , maybe that is just me
but if the answers can not be found there than the circle needs to be expanded some
one of the first things done I think in an investigation like this is to look for sex offenders in the area ,especially those with similar preferences and MO
certainly it could be someone with a record already
certainly it could be someone with no record
and certainly it could be someone who later in life was proven to be a pedophile
we have all three
we also have a lead or direction that maybe , maybe this was the same person that abducted Jared , maybe the same guy as in the Paynesville
suspect
his dress his voice his language
the circle gets bigger
it could be someone a suspect we have discussed here, most likely I believe , or someone completely unknown
it is true putting blinders on and focusing on one suspect could be a big waste of time , a whole lot of TIME, maybe the answer just isn’t there 

what we need here is a new tip new info for the police to check
Derek’s idea of the billboards is good , I would include something a little different like a question , do you remember chester the molester ?
do you remember a car like this ? DO YOU REMEMBER????? Jacob

all of you twitterers from the area . don’t be shy start passing it around

115. Debbie | August 6, 2015 at 8:02 pm 

777,

I believe you are on the right page in only looking at the facts, so far presented. You are not accusing anyone…just stating what a narrow space and limited time frame there was in this abduction. And, I believe your input will help solve Jacob’s abduction. 

Therefore, I must ask you to, also, consider the possibility that Jacobs abductor may not have actually SEEN the boys on their way to the Tom Thumb, but may have overheard telephone conversations about their plans to go to the Tom Thumb. 

The “saw” versus “heard” scenario could mean that the abductor was not necessarily in a position to actually view the boys as they were on their way to the Tom Thumb, but was close enough to get to that location quite quickly.

116. Derek | August 6, 2015 at 8:55 pm 

The billboard thing wasn’t even my idea somebody said that a few posts ago. And even then they were putting billboards up anyway. I was merely reiterating what was already said and what has been done. I just think more focus should be on st. cloud because that makes more sense. And 777 you are forgetting Paynesville and cold spring. What reason did the abductor have to be in those places? Wouldn’t it make more sense that the abductor stalked all his victims then went out later to try to abduct them. Rather than having some strange reason for being in the area and just happen to decide to abduct.

117. 777 | August 7, 2015 at 12:04 am 

Jim and Debbie, wow, many thanks for the kind words. I guess I didn’t realize how strongly this case could affect me once I actually started discussing it with others. Previously it was just something I kind of followed just out of personal interest. It strangely feels good to discuss it and see others want to discuss it, so thanks. I’m now reading every new comment eagerly and I hope I can keep up the enthusiasm to stay in the conversation or maybe even provoke others to get involved.

Jim, I think maybe what I just said might build on your suggestion that more clues need to be encouraged from the general public. Maybe a lot of people are like me and keep up with the case but just never do anything further because we are just strangers. Others may be thinking it even seems a little weird to be seen as someone who keeps track of this case. I mean a few of the named suspects are held up as more likely because they were found to have an ongoing interest in Jacob’s media attention well after the abduction. Kevin was apparently so concerned about becoming a suspect he didn’t come forward with his shockingly relevant information for over a decade! Who else might be afraid of this?

Is it possible people with valuable information don’t realize they know something valuable? Is it possible people out there on no one’s radar, especially males, are just a little timid about coming forward with even small pieces of information because they’re afraid people or the police will think they have too much interest in a child molestation case? How to overcome this? Anonymous tips seem to have exhausted their effectiveness.

Debbie, your question that you politely ask me to consider is intriguing. I haven’t thought about the abductor overhearing the telephone conversations that were made about the boys’ plans to go the Tom Thumb. If you’re suggesting the abductor was physically close enough to overhear a person talking on the phone – that still pretty much means they are in the immediate area of S 91st street as the boys begin their journey. …..Right? 

Both Wetterling boys made separate phone calls to their parents shortly before they left the house asking permission to go to the store. There was also one or more phone calls between the Wetterling house and the neighbor’s house so that a temporary baby sitter could be arranged for the youngest Wetterling daughter. If I’m understanding you correctly, you’re asking us to consider someone overheard one or more of these conversations, correct? So the abductor had to be in or very close to the Wetterling house or the neighbor’s house in this scenario, right???

Please let confirm if I have your idea correctly stated here, and please let me know if there are other ramifications of this ‘overheard conversation’ scenario which you think are relevant.

I’d like to think further about this, about the physical logistics involved, about who could be in such a physical location and why. How does this telephone conversation idea affect the interpretation of the crime scene in your view? How does it effect the attributes of the criminal in your opinion?

As always I am strongly biased towards what is likely versus what is merely possible, so if you have thoughts about that please do share. Your idea does affect the requirement in my mind that the abductor is in a physical position to see the boys going to the store or in a position to hear them talking among themselves while they are peddling/scooting north towards the Tom Thumb (or, less likely, actually at the Tom Thumb when he first sees the boys).

Interesting….

777

118. 777 | August 7, 2015 at 12:36 am 

Derek, this is in response to your post at 8:55 pm.

Thanks for speaking with me, it is appreciated. You asked me:

777 you are forgetting Paynesville and cold spring. What reason did the abductor have to be in those places? Wouldn…t it make more sense that the abductor stalked all his victims then went out later to try to abduct them. Rather than having some strange reason for being in the area and just happen to decide to abduct.

Derek, I’m not really forgetting Paynesvile and Cold Spring.  I’m ignoring them.
.
.
.
The belief that Jacob’s abduction is connected to earlier crimes has been in place since the first week of the investigation. I think Jared has said he believes there is a connection, and I think he’s active on Joy’s website to help get all this solved. Good. I’m in no position to contradict an abduction witness like Jared or the FBI.

But, 25 years of this thinking has left us with not a lot of progress. The assumption that there is a connection between Jacob’s and Jared’s abductions is one issue. But it also gets mixed in with the common assumption that Jacob’s abductor is someone with a known child molestation record.  What has making these assumptions done for Jacob?

I am saying lets rewind everything and start from scratch, from the basic facts of the crime scene and see where that takes us. 

Why? Because making the assumptions about Paynesville, Cold Spring and known child molesters and connecting them to Jacob has produced no solution. These connections are treated as a given fact by some, when really they are unproven. This leads people to start attempting to conform the facts of the crime scene in St Joe to the crime scenes in Paynesville / Cold Spring. It causes people to emphasize similarities and completely ignore the differences. It erroneously causes people to ignore or attack explanations for Jacob’s case that don’t fit in with explanations for Paynesville and Cold Spring. 

I say it’s better, now, after all these years of assuming a connection, to just start and assume nothing, assume no connection whatsoever. If there were no previous child molestations in the area and no known child molesters around, where would the facts of the crime scene lead you? What aspects of the crime scene are now critically important? and isn’t the crime scene in this way of thinking the one and only way to lead to the abductor?

I’m just hoping a few people will humor me in thinking about the case in this way, to give it a try and start from scratch. I’m not saying you’re wrong and I’m not saying I’m right. I’m saying lets throw out all the things everyone thinks they know for certain and start with the crime scene evidence. Let’s discuss it…. anyway, I’m hoping at least a few people will give this approach a shot and see where it leads, because I’m obviously incapable of figuring it all out.

So, forget Paynesville and Cold Spring for a moment. What becomes the most important things to look at in the area when you get the call on Sunday night saying Jacob was just taken?

777

119. Clarence Dee | August 7, 2015 at 8:50 am 

I think most of you that blog regularly here should make yourself aware of how you would think as a career criminal. You are clever, sly, cunning and you most likely are a guy, and you have been doing this since you were a teenager. 

My suggestion would be to keep reviewing the .afore mentioned suspects and see what you come up with. (both alive and dead) 

This has been going on in your region and others for many,many years. You seem to be so close, but think subtlely, something in between, and use perception and your gut feelings. 

We only know what has been written on the blogs, unless we were within touching distance. As has been stated along the way there really doesn’t seem to be a material trail that is within our grasp.

120. Tamara | August 7, 2015 at 2:52 pm 

777 – The crime scene itself and the clues it revealed, the information given by the only 2 other witnesses, the location of the abduction and therefore, who had the opportunity to know either where the boys had gone or that they would be returning on the same road. Where to go from there I do not know. 

Joy, as always, I applaud your hard work and dedication.

121. Debbie | August 7, 2015 at 5:42 pm 

777,

Thank you for your response.

I am asking you to consider someone may have overheard the boys phone conversations before they went to the Tom Thumb. I believe it could have been possible to overhear these conversations via a phone party line, or over the radio air waves on a device (like a baby monitor, scanner, ham radio, or CB radio).

I have read that it was possible for some devices to pick up phone calls made on an older cordless phone. I, also, read that “years ago some scanners could be modified to listen to analog cell phone conversations”.

Considering this possibility, would mean that the abductor would not have had to physically “see” the boys on their way to the Tom Thumb store.

If a device was used by the abductor to listen to these telephone conversations, it would depend on the range of each device, to determine how far away the abductor was when he heard them. The abductor would still have to have been very close to the area in order to position himself to wait for the boys to return from the Tom Thumb.

I will address this conversation further in my next post.

122. Donavon Mickelson | August 7, 2015 at 6:50 pm 

Good suggestion 777. Start all over.

123. Debbie | August 7, 2015 at 7:19 pm 

777,

In my opinion, IF the abductor saw the boys on their way to the Tom Thumb, he would not have had AS MUCH time to plan, dress and place himself in the ideal, low lit, isolated place where the abduction took place. 

It is possible, the abductor just happen to see the boys on their bikes and scooter, and just assumed their destination, and just assumed their return time. This is very possible and should not be ruled out.

124. dreampeddler1 | August 7, 2015 at 8:36 pm 

I’m the same age as Jacob and our old rotary dial phone at home used to pick up CB conversations all the time…

125. Debbie | August 7, 2015 at 8:47 pm 

777,

IF the boys telephone conversations on 10/22/89 were overheard by the abductor via a party line or radio frequency device……..

This, most likely, was not the first time that telephone conversations of the Wetterlings or their neighbors were overheard.

IF the abductor was accidently, or purposely, listening into phone conversations in this area, he may have heard a lot of very personal information over a course of time.

To the adults, in this area, he may have seemed like the guy who had a sixth sense.

To the younger boys, in the area, he may have been the guy who they would, coincidently, run into a lot (or cross paths with).

126. Tate | August 7, 2015 at 9:33 pm 

Could you imagine seeing the footprints left by the abductor, what kind of shoe it was? its almost like this illusive man would be right in front of us.

127. Julie Tremp | August 7, 2015 at 10:01 pm 

777, I think you’re getting warmer…. Good work!

128. 777 | August 7, 2015 at 10:02 pm 

Thanks for that, Donavon. The big problem I fear is that if the criminal here is someone other than the named POI, then, like the POI, the guy who took Jacob could very well have no arrest record. If we’re looking for someone who no one has any reason to suspect of being a child molester, it’s really hard. But I think in that case it means the crime scene is the key, the time, location details are key… what are your thoughts?

Debbie, for some strange reason I had to work a lot today for my boss then also do the usual “stuff” like get groceries and do laundry that takes up a lot of hours. Sorry, I haven’t much time thinking about your idea or researching what this might take. 

I am further intrigued because you brought up even more details to your idea that I didn’t think of. When you said someone may have overheard their conversations about going to rent a video, I assumed you meant overheard it in the normal sense, not overheard it electronically. Now, I am worried that I’m going to end up thinking this is theoretically possible but very unlikely….but since I’ve never thought of this ‘overheard’ scenario before, I want to talk with you and give it full attention. I mean we’re 25 years on, why not think through any and every reasonable idea?

I’ll tell you something maybe funny or maybe disturbing that makes me take your ideas seriously. When I lived in a cheap rent house in my early 20s, which was in the early 1990s, I had the weirdest phone experiences. Somehow, from time to time in a totally unpredictable way, my landline phone would act as if it was hooked up into a nearby dentist’s office about a half mile away. I’d pick up the phone to make a call and there would be someone asking when they could get their root canal done, in conversation with the dental office. Sometimes the phone would ring and both me and the receptionist at the dentist’s office would answer it. I tried to just ignore it but when my friends found out about it they thought it was great fun. They’d always try to listen in on conversations and sometimes they’d interrupt by saying something like, “Hi, Mrs, Smith, This is Doctor Jones and sorry,your teeth are in such terrible shape nothing more can be done”. Anyway it eventually stopped. 

Back in this era it was also very common to hear neighbors’ cordless phone conversations on my cordless phone. I haven’t looked into if all this phone stuff is something that could have been plausibly relevant in Jacob’s case yet. I’d like to research what kind of tools, if any, might have then been available to a criminal interested in something like this. I look forward to hearing more from you.

Thanks again, Debbie, for talking with me.

777

129. Lanie | August 7, 2015 at 10:43 pm 

My parents who lived in St Cloud had a party line and you could listen to whole conversations on the phone. I don’t think the other party lived near my parents but possibly on the other side of town. Very interesting theory Debbie.

130. jenna | August 8, 2015 at 1:47 am 

Oh my. I hope the parents get closure :'(

131. terry | August 8, 2015 at 11:49 am 

When my mom used a cordless phone many years ago the conversation could be overheard in our church during services.

132. Tate | August 8, 2015 at 12:15 pm 

Good job everyone, keep up the hard work to uncover the truth of the where abouts of Jacob Wetterling.

133. Julie Tremp | August 8, 2015 at 1:30 pm 

777, you had me going, and as I read further, you seem to be going in the direction of Kevin. I just don’t see it, but maybe that’s because I’m in another direction. 

I’ve written posts that are still in moderation, and I respect why. I’m not sure if the specific names I mentioned here have been spoken of, and I’d have to go back and read older comments/blogs. This may be why they’re not being posted. I get that.

Bottom line: I think the focus is too narrow, and people need to look back at every suspect mentioned, and reevaluate.

There’s very valuable information not being looked into as far as we know. It’s possible they are, and not saying it, as it could compromise an investigation. 

I’m deeply passionate about researching Jacob’s abduction, and I’ve seen people work very, very hard on this. That says a lot about how much people care, and I respect each and every person’s efforts in this. The more angry I see people, the more I respect them. Why? Because their anger shows their passion for finding out what happened to Jacob?

134. Derek | August 8, 2015 at 1:43 pm 

Someone listening into a phone call is more believable than a stalker? and more believable than a connection to the other cases? Yea I am out of here you win JOY.

135. Donavon Mickelson | August 8, 2015 at 10:34 pm 

Well stated Julie.

136. Debbie | August 8, 2015 at 11:53 pm 

Julie Tremp, I follow this blog every day. I can usually understand what each person is trying to say. But, I truly do not understand, in your last blog to 777, what you meant by “you seem to be going in the direction of Kevin”. What do you mean? I don’t understand. Please clarify…for Jacob’s sake.

137. Amanda | August 9, 2015 at 12:40 am 

Debbie/777 

I Would like to point out Jared made emphasis On his observarion of what he assumed was a “police scanner/radio” in his abdutor’s car. Was it going off or was he using it after the assault? Could there have been a coding he was using with someone and the red carpet was a code word? Or were they actually going to meet there? 

These radios seem like a good way to communicate in code with others so that people don’t know what your up to.

138. Amanda | August 9, 2015 at 12:54 am 

Although Jareds assault sounds random it may not be. Jared’s abductor knew the kraemers were neighbors of his. It’s possible with the radio he had in his car that he learned Jared was on his way home and away from his parents therefore unprotected. He used the mention of the neighbors to sound local on purpose. 

He didn’t want to seem like a threat.

139. Julie Tremp | August 9, 2015 at 9:38 am 

Debbie, that means it seems like 777 thinks that Kevin may be involved in Jacob’s abduction.

Kevin may know something, possibly, but IMO I don’t think he took Jacob. I’m sorry if this was a bit confusing, Thank you for letting me know.

I truly hope LE finds answers this year, and they look where they need to look. It will be 26 years in just a couple months, and it’s time to solve this.

A big thanks to all of you who put your heart and soul into this.

I feel there’s very sick/evil people involved in this, and there’s more than one of them. I feel it was planned in advance.

140. Clarence | August 9, 2015 at 11:01 am 

DEREK You give up too ez. You appear to have a fairly logical outlook on things so why not back off, take a breather and come back in and concentrate on the suspects already that are there?

141. Donavon Mickelson | August 9, 2015 at 1:25 pm 

A Police scanner in a vehicle is not a concern AFTER the fact. This thing happened too quick. What was suggested by someone is that at that time, PORTABLE land lines could be listened to on scanners that were meant for Police and fire and ambulance calls, etc. On my one Police scanner, I heard my neighbor purchasing something over the telephone and giving his credit card number. He was in his early 80’s. I contacted his son and told him to talk to his dad and not to do that on a PORTABLE land line telephone. He thanked me immensely. The odds of this happening in the Wetterling case in very small but a person did have the capability during those years —- and still do with the right scanner.

142. Debbie | August 9, 2015 at 2:55 pm 

Julie Tremp,

I did not get the impression that 777 thinks Kevin may be involved in Jacob’s abduction. I understood 777’s reference to Kevin, only, as an example of WHY Locals may be hesitant to come forward with information. 

I have a strong feeling that Jacob’s abduction was planned in advance, as well.

Thank you for input.

143. 777 | August 9, 2015 at 3:42 pm 

Debbie, I have thought about the idea that the abductor overheard one of the phone conversations. I’ve looked into it online to see what it would take and how likely it was in 1989. In this scenario it seems to me the criminal has one of two qualities about him:

1. The guy either “got lucky” and kind of stumbled on to a neat (for him) discovery that some piece of equipment he has (scanner, cordless phone, CB or even his own landline phone) was able to pick up other people’s phone conversations, OR,

2. The guy is something of a technical enthusiast and deliberately set out to get this phone tapping ability. Perhaps he did his research and found out the equipment this required – in the days before the internet this kind of research would be available at some libraries perhaps but would still imply a pretty big advanced plan for everything that happened this night.

As far as I can see about the technical ability to overhear phone conversations in this era, most of the time it was a random kind of thing that your average person might occasionally experience but would not be able to duplicate at will anytime he wanted to listen in on a phone call. But it obviously could be more reliably done if the abductor has specialized knowledge or otherwise developed a reliable ability to listen into calls through buying special equipment. My point is I don’t think you can just buy a scanner in 1989 and expect to hear people’s calls.

I think this basic ‘overheard phone call’ scenario is possible, but it seems to me more likely that the criminal simply saw the boys out that night and decided to act. (not that my opinion is of any importance) Because of the phone call scenario we shouldn’t rule someone out as a suspect if they were close by but not on 91st Street when they boys are on the way to get the video. But if someone is targeting Jacob and specifically Jacob it is obvious that waiting around by his house on a Sunday evening is not likely to offer any opportunities for an abduction, and in the ‘overheard phone call’ scenario the criminal has to be close to the house. But it could be a neighboring house or someone sitting close by in the woods. Still, requires planing and a plan to take Jacob would not be centered on Sunday nightIMO.

However, if someone is not particularly targeting Jacob and is just a guy who might take the opportunity to abduct a boy if such an opportunity presents itself, the ‘overheard phone call’ scenario is a bit more plausible.

The main takeaway I get from this scenario is that the abductor still has to be in the very immediate area, although not necessarily in sight or in hearing distance of the boys’ outbound route. Right?

777

144. Julie Tremp | August 9, 2015 at 11:06 pm 

Thank you Debbie. I need to slow down a bit, and go through the comments again. 

With three boys being at the abduction site, and the perpetrator asking their ages, Jacob had to be targeted specifically. The perp had to have known some history on Jacob in advance (IMO). I do think whoever planned this must have been pretty desperate to get at Jacob, when there’s two witnesses standing there with him when they were approached.

Again, I really feel there’s more than one person involved in Jacob’s abduction. I hope this is being considered by LE, and they’ll look into the information that has been offered to them on multiple occasions. 

Something I always keep in mind:
Things aren’t always what they appear to be.

145. Tamara | August 10, 2015 at 6:29 am 

777 – I agree with the points you’re making. I do sense that the perpetrator was local,although I do see the connection with Jared’s case and the Paynesville attacks. I still have hope that he may be apprehended even after so long. Example- here in Canada, a man was arrested this year for the murder of 2 girls 40 years ago. There is always hope. Keep up the good work everyone.

146. Sara | August 10, 2015 at 7:29 am 

What if Jacob wasn’t the abductor’s target? In an earlier blog there is mention of a boy living in Jacob’s neighborhood who frequently rode his bike to Tom Thumb at night. Did that boy have plans to go to Tom Thumb that night? If so could the abductor have known that and been lying in wait?

147. Jim | August 10, 2015 at 4:08 pm 

the one thing that gas always stood out for me is the fact that the crime was very brazen or risky for our suspect , he felt he could get away or was very desperate or both,
I feel that this is another connection to the Paynesville attacks
777 i know you say less likely the boys were seen at the store but I think that this scenario is just as likely maybe more so if you put all are stories together ,
the suspicious cars following kids the suspicious guy who hung outside the tom thumb and another store in a different town
perfect place for one of these guys to hang out
he does not have to be parked at the store ,just near by wear he can see
maybe he has been around enough to know who the boys are where they live
he would have plenty of time to get down that road

I think with our limited information trying to find out more about the Paynesville attacks is a worthy direction and an a still open lead

148. Debbie | August 12, 2015 at 12:39 am 

I notice that, of those Paynesville incidents that provided an exact date, they all fell on a weekend. Three incidents were on a Sunday. One incident was on a Friday, and one incident was on a Saturday. And another Paynesville incident was on a weekend. That means that at least 6 of the Paynesville cases were on a weekend. 

Jacob was abducted on a Sunday.

149. Julie Tremp | August 12, 2015 at 12:23 pm 

Good observation Debbie. I wonder why most of the incidents were on weekends? Maybe the Paynesville perp worked during the week. Maybe he traveled a fair distance to get at those boys; possibly from another state. 

IMO, I don’t think the Paynesville attacks are directly related to Jacob’s abduction, but maybe indirectly. I know it was on a Sunday, but there’s other things that point into different perp/perps being involved; according to other information LE has not looked at yet.

I find it noteworthy that this abduction happened the very first night Jacob was allowed to go to the Tom Thumb after dark, and his parents happened to be out that same night. Who knew that Jacob would be down that road? Why was he abducted, even with witnesses present? 

What a coincidence a boy was abducted, never to return, on the very first night he goes to the Tom Thumb at night.

The Payneville victims were all let go, or got away. I do wonder if the Paynesville perp knew the other perp/perps in Jacob’s case, as many pedophiles hang out in the same circles. That’s why I think these Paynesville incidents are very important, and need to be thoroughly investigated, as it may help connect the dots in Jacob’s case, even if there’s different perps involved.

Networking all this information together is important. How many of the Paynesville attacks happened at night?

150. Tate | August 12, 2015 at 3:32 pm 

Ryan larson, how do you know the last foot print was facing south?

151. Ryan Larson | August 19, 2015 at 6:00 pm 

I looked at the photos….. Vehicles on the driveway travel east and west. The sun for us is always to the south. Jacob’s print has a shadow being cast from the toe side , hence, the print is pointing south.

152. Tate | August 20, 2015 at 10:30 am 

Ryan Larson, thanks.

153. 777 | August 20, 2015 at 12:08 pm 

Ryan, interesting point about the shadow. If I’m following you correctly than you’re saying the camera is on the north side of the driveway pointed south, right? This tends to imply that Jacob was either getting in the passenger side of a car headed towards the road OR the driver’s side of a car headed towards the house? right?

154. Jim | August 20, 2015 at 4:13 pm 

I had a thought about a possible connection in some of the things I have read
1 I read in here one of the Paynesville attacks happened during some kind of town event , a fair or festival
2 we have a polka fest down the road from our crime scene in this case
3 we have the suspect from Jared’s case mentioning the Red Carpet
4 we have a person of interest with the catch me if you can bumper sticker

if we take someone who works maybe setting band equipment stages ect he could easily get a job working on a local movie production as well

I have a friend who does this kind of work here , he often has hours of time to spend between set up and take down

I wonder if any of the other reports of the suspicious cars in the area ,following boys from the tom thumb
do they coincide with some kind of event at the del win ballroom?

155. Ryan Larson | August 21, 2015 at 10:22 pm 

777,

You would be correct in the position of the car. I’m following what you’ve had to say on “the other” site as well…..Beware the crazies there, but what you’re saying there makes sense.

156. Ryan Larson | August 21, 2015 at 10:35 pm 

777,

Just to add…Would it be likely for an abductor to put a child in the passenger side of a vehicle, shut the door and make his/her way to the other side of the vehicle without the 11 year old bailing out of the car. Or putting him in the driver’s side as to keep a hand on him or very close at the least, hence making what “the obviously innocent man in the farmhouse” seen likely the most important and over-looked (by law enforcement) clue in this 25, almost 26 year investigation. You mentioned you had a yard light growing up I believe….those yard lights are a pretty low Kelvin rating, maybe 3000, which is almost an amber color. At a quick glance what color would a silver car look under the reflection of one of those old yard lights? I drive a silver car. Just for fun I had a friend drive my car by an old yard light like I described…..it got my attention!

157. Tate | August 22, 2015 at 12:26 pm 

Ryan Larson, some vans are opened up on the side and the drivers seat can be accessed through the back, I watched a dateline the other night where a man abducted a woman in broad daylight he asked for directions when she approached he forced her in his van, then he drove around even through mcdonalds because no one could see her, he later drove down a logging road where he raped and killed her, they only found her dna in his van but he revealed herwhereabouts only because of a deal with the da. Keep up the hard work to find the where abouts of Jacob Wetterling.

158. 777 | August 22, 2015 at 2:11 pm 

Hi Ryan, thanks for speaking with me.

Again, I think your work on the shadows is interesting. I need to say that many people in other contexts have made mistakes with looking at shadows, not that I think you are wrong. Sometimes pictures in the media or on the internet are actually mirror images, sometimes there is another light source besides the sun around, etc. You can google shadows of the astronauts on the moon to see the big hysteria caused by amateurs misinterpreting shadows in pictures they pulled off the internet…but as I said I think you are probably right.

As for the “other” site, many very competent and reasonable people have contacted me privately and offered good information. They have solved several crimes using amateurs, so I think it has potential.

As for your rhetorical question, “Would it be likely for an abductor to put a child in the passenger side of a vehicle, shut the door and make his/her way to the other side of the vehicle without the 11 year old bailing out of the car?”

This question is really very speculative. It’s hard to say. I’ve been in situation where a gun was pulled out and you tend to go into mental shock and stare at the gun or the person with the gun. Jacob would I think just do what he was told and stay in the car, but you’re right its a point to consider.

Also, the use of an accomplice to subdue Jacob in the car could be considered. I think this is unlikely because it means conspiracy.

If the abductor was “good” at this sort of thing, he may have his car tricked out for abductions and previously disabled the interior door handle – this trick has been used by several serial criminals over the years.

If you want a quick getaway from the scene, you would have the car facing the road as you wait for the boys to pass by, IMO. UNLESS, you didn’t know the driveway was a driveway and thought it was a crossroad that leads out of the area. Or, the final alternative is that you never intended to leave the property with Jacob anyway so the car was facing the house.

If you DID know it was a driveway and you had just abducted Jacob, the decision to drive 1/4 mile up and back (1/2 mile total) to the house, turn around under the light and come back, seems very very odd. It’s so odd as to seem unlikely.

So I think the abductor was either:

1. already parked facing the road because he knew this was a driveway – meaning Jacob got in the passenger side. 

or

2. parked facing towards the house because he DID NOT know this was a driveway, meaning Jacob got into the driver side….as you say in this case the abductor could perhaps keep a hand on Jacob at all times.

or

3. parked facing towards the house because he knew it was a driveway and had no intention of turning back around and exiting the driveway with Jacob.

Really what this all comes back to is whether or not the abductor knew this was a driveway. I don’t see an abductor or Kevin doing the grand tour up and down the driveway when they both should have known this was no crossroad….

777

…..

159. joy.the.curious | August 22, 2015 at 3:23 pm 

Ryan, just to clarify, Dan saw the amber colored car that looked like a Monte Carlo during the afternoon, not at night.

160. Ryan Larson | August 22, 2015 at 4:12 pm 

Thanks Joy, I got them switched around. So it was the small dark car that was seen that night. I appreciate you helping keep my facts straight….Thank you! 

777, If you look at Joy’s blog titled “Kevin’s story” and look at the photo of Mund you’ll see which direction shadows are cast on the driveway. The fence you see in the photo was on the north side. Another issue people seem to constantly mention is the fact the boys seen no headlights on their run home. What needs to be remembered in regards to that issue is cars didn’t have DRL’s or autolights in 1989. Most cars I remember had headlights that operated by the old manual plunger style switch.

I would still love to know which hand the perp carried his gun as most people carry a handgun in their dominant hand!
10% of the population is left-handed….wouldn’t that be something!

161. Mt angler. | August 26, 2015 at 2:12 pm 

Any vehicle would appear black or dark blue in pitch black or near to nothing light.

162. Julie Tremp | August 26, 2015 at 10:29 pm 

Would a burgundy vehicle appear black in low light?

163. anonymous | September 24, 2015 at 4:32 pm 

“Find that car and you have your kidnapper”-dan rassier. He said this.on a interview where he referred to the tan/amber monte carlo 72-78 that went blazing through his parents driveway that Sunday afternoon.