A statement of support

The arrest of Danny Heinrich

Posted by joy.the.curious on Oct 29, 2015 in Jacob | 76 comments

What a day.

So, by now you know that a new “person of interest” has been named in Jacob’s case after he was arrested on several counts of child pornography. U.S. Attorney Andrew Luger, along with FBI Special Agent in Charge Richard Thornton, MN BCA Superintendent Drew Evans, and Stearns County Sheriff John Sanner held a joint press conference at the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Minneapolis today. By all accounts, it was a stunner.

There is now DNA evidence that proves Danny James Heinrich is the one who kidnapped and assaulted 12-year-old Jared from Cold Spring on January 13, 1989.

Unfortunately, the statute of limitations has expired on Jared’s case, so Heinrich can no longer be prosecuted on those charges. (Thank goodness those laws have since changed.)

There is also evidence that links Heinrich to the crime scene where Jacob was abducted. Tire tracks and shoe prints in the driveway match the car and shoes owned by Heinrich at the time of Jacob’s disappearance.

And then there are the Paynesville incidents that took place between 1986-1989. Heinrich lived in Paynesville at the time and may also be linked to those cases.

This is still a very active investigation, so for those who have questioned why I removed all my “Jacob posts” in the past few weeks, now you know why. Jared had asked me to remove any posts or comments related to his case, but I was afraid of raising suspicion, so I just took them all down. I will try and put some back up in the upcoming days or weeks, but for now, I’m laying low.

Truth be told, it has taken me the better part of a day to just “get a grip.” I am so happy and grateful for Jared. He finally has his answers, which he has worked so bravely and diligently to find. He is a good person… a kind person… and he deserves every bit of recognition for helping to solve his case.

On the other side of the coin, I am so overwhelmed with emotion for the Wetterlings. If this is it… if this is the answer… then where is Jacob? What happened to that poor child? Clearly there is no happy ending here, and those thoughts just about undo me.

I have a print in my office that says, “She knew the answers would come with time and love.” I wish this for the Wetterlings tonight. Certainly it is time. And most certainly, there is love. All we need now are answers.

“She knew the answers would come with time and love.”

Sending prayers and positive thoughts out to the universe tonight. As always, thanks for #ThinkingJacob with me.

Next time

Wow. What to say.

76 Comments1.     Lindsay | October 29, 2015 at 6:09 pm 

Thanks for the post. I’ve been wondering if you would comment or blog today. I think you too should feel proud of the work you did and the possible connections you made about Jacob and paynesville.
Curious though why this means you would have to take down your posts? I read what you wrote that rather than remove only Jared posts, you removed all posts Jared or Jacob but I still don’t get WHY. Can you elaborate?

2.     Jon W | October 29, 2015 at 6:15 pm 

Thank you for what you do, Joy.

3.     TM | October 29, 2015 at 6:17 pm 

Thank you for the work you have been doing. The family of Jacob and all of the other victims of this POS deserve some justice and peace of mind.

4.     Karen | October 29, 2015 at 6:19 pm 

I knew you would succeed. Bless you. Bless the Wetterlings.

Kd

5.     Jaime | October 29, 2015 at 6:20 pm 

Thank you Joy for all your work and attention brought to this case

6.     Jean Bradley | October 29, 2015 at 6:22 pm 

I really hope that Jared’s attacker is the same man who took Jacob. The stories and descriptions seemed to match. It is amazing that after all this time, Jared’s crime is solved. I pray that the Wetterling family will finally find out what really happened.

7.     Dana | October 29, 2015 at 6:27 pm 

Once again, you are amazing! Thanks Joy! And bless Jared …and the Wetterling family.

8.     Jodie | October 29, 2015 at 6:34 pm 

Such mixed emotions for me too. So happy that they’ve finally found SOMETHING and SOMEONE. So sad that there most likely will be very tragic closure for this family.

9.     Jennifer | October 29, 2015 at 6:35 pm 

I have followed your blog for a long time Joy. I wondered why you took down the posts, but this makes sense. I am glad your hard work and dedication has paid off. You and Jared deserve so much credit. Jared on behalf of parents everywhere, thank you for having the courage to keep talking about this horrific event. And Joy, thanks for never giving up on finding the answers. God bless you both.

10.  Diane | October 29, 2015 at 6:40 pm 

WOW

11.  Cindy Eisold-Larson | October 29, 2015 at 6:43 pm 

Joy I can only imagine your mixed emotions ranging from one perspective to aother. Thank you for teaching us so much about all of these cases that are likely intertwined. Your heart was obviously into every step you gained, and I pray for calm to your spirit in these next days, months …

12.  Dean | October 29, 2015 at 6:43 pm 

Joy, you helped keep these cases alive. Thank you. 

Our prayers go out to the Wetterling family and all the families affected by these terrible crimes.

13.  Jim Wookey | October 29, 2015 at 6:59 pm 

You are awesome Joy! Thank you for your diligent work to help find Jacob.

14.  Joan oellien | October 29, 2015 at 7:03 pm 

It is amazing what happened today, but its not over. Anyone out there that knows anything about this man, or if he has violated you, please come forward. I think there are more victims that need to come forward. God bless the wetterlings, I hope they find some peace.

15.  Mona | October 29, 2015 at 7:13 pm 

Maybe he did not go too far away with Jacob or his body (if he took him) since he was living in Paynesville and found in Annandale? Are they going to have all the victims identify his raspy voice? Wonder how many more victims there are still out there who have not come forward! How many more in this 26 years and FBI could not arrest him?????

16.  Darcy Jenkins-Holick | October 29, 2015 at 7:16 pm(Edit)

Hoping….

17.  Sally | October 29, 2015 at 7:21 pm 

Thanks Joy, your dedication has been rewarded. And you put the hope back in ” cold case investigation” bless your heart. From a mother in Wisconsin.

18.  Lonnie Davis | October 29, 2015 at 7:21 pm 

Thank God for your curiosity and your diligence in seeking the truth. You have been on the right track every step of the way

19.  Jim | October 29, 2015 at 7:26 pm 

great news for Jared and hopefully some news about Jacob
maybe all those prayers were answered
great work Joy. digging up info. bringing all those people and prayers together
please keep us informed if you can thanks

20.  Pam | October 29, 2015 at 7:32 pm 

So proud of you Joy!

21.  Rene | October 29, 2015 at 7:39 pm 

Thank you for your work on this case. These kinds of cases break my heart – such senseless violence towards children. I will never understand it. Hopefully, this garbage will forever be off the streets and justice will be done for all those who have been hurt by this monster. Thank you again.

22.  Anne | October 29, 2015 at 7:39 pm 

Joy, the work you’ve done is amazing. And Jared deserves credit for his efforts to get answers for himself and Jacob. Good for you Jared!

I have a feeling that what is known about this POS right now is only the tip of the iceberg. I hope this investigation will be able to finally reveal answers for everyone affected by these events. Especially the Wetterling family. They have been tortured by this person. They deserve to know what happend to their child. They deserve respect and peace. 

Joy you and Jared have worked hard and responsibly for these answers, I can’t wait to see what the police will find as this develops. God bless you both and the Wetterlings too.

23.  Pamela Brown | October 29, 2015 at 8:15 pm 

Thank you for all your hard work, Joy. Hopefully, this is a breakthrough that will bring all the truth about what happened to Jacob to light at last. My thoughts and prayers to the Wetterlings and to Jered and his family too. I am playing the flute for everyone too. That always helps. That is how I pray…

24.  Theresa | October 29, 2015 at 8:36 pm 

Your comments accurately state the thoughts of many around the state today. Those of us who think of Jacob often are hoping for answers, but so wish the situation had never been allowed to happen. Thank you for all the work you’ve done.

25.  Ellarry Prentice | October 29, 2015 at 8:40 pm 

Thanks for all you’ve done for this case, Joy.

26.  Andrew | October 29, 2015 at 8:41 pm 

Joy, please bring back your old posts, all of them. You did amazing and inspiring investigative work. After reading them, I came to believe the case could be solved after thinking it never would be. Your reporting on the Paynesville incidents, ESPECIALLY now, need to be read by as many people as possible.

27.  Linda Tremp Waters | October 29, 2015 at 9:03 pm 

Such important news for the family.

28.  Lisa | October 29, 2015 at 9:15 pm 

All your work is really paying off. You kept this story out there. I cant imagine where this would have gone if you weren’t involved. I know its not over yet, but meeting Patty and living in MN at that time, I feel closure coming. You are truly an angel!

29.  Joan f winter | October 29, 2015 at 9:42 pm 

We never stopped thinking about Jacob and his family. Overwhelming

30.  MNSherlock | October 29, 2015 at 10:06 pm 

Joy,

God bless. I truly believe that the work you’ve done with Jared was an important aspect of the momentum that has built over the past couple years. 

I agree, the sad news “hidden” in today’s developments is that our deep down hope that Jacob may be alive has essentially evaporated.

His family’s legacy never will. Be proud that you have added your own contributions to the community of people associated with that legacy.

31.  Erica Brown | October 29, 2015 at 10:11 pm 

Yes, What a day! I had a feeling something was going to happen. Jacob has been in the news a lot this year! Prayers for the Wetterling family! I lived in MN at the time of his abduction. I remember being in gym class when his abduction was announced. We are less than a year apart. It really hit home. Thank you, Joy for keeping this going!

32.  Amy f | October 29, 2015 at 10:20 pm 

No words. Amazing things happen when you search for the truth with passion and loving spirit. So incredibly proud and hopeful for some resolution albeit painstaking at the same time.

33.  Andy | October 29, 2015 at 10:48 pm 

Incredible work Joy. I pray for resolution to Jacobs case for his family and loved ones. Certainly Jared has played a vital role in this process which you have spearheaded. A million thanks to you both.

34.  Valerie | October 29, 2015 at 11:01 pm 

Joy,
Thank you for your diligence, and thank God for Jared’s tremendous courage in seeing this thing through…even at great personal expense.
Jacob, Jared and all the young men in those 19 ring-binders and video’s found in this evil man’s possession deserve final justice.
It is their peace that weighs heavy on my heart tonight. Prayers to you all…

35.  Jnet | October 30, 2015 at 12:19 am 

Thank you Joy and I will pray that this is the answer for the Wetterlings, whatever it may be, as just knowing what happened and who is responsible should help them.

36.  jsminterior | October 30, 2015 at 1:17 am 

Thank you for your dedication to these cases…..finally some answers. I have so much respect for Jared, to go through so much and be brave enough to come forward and help the investigation….my thoughts & prayers go to him and the Wetterling family. Hopefully, they will get the answers to Jacob’s disappearance…..’so tragic that someone could do harm to a child…..heartbreaking.

37.  Donavon Mickelson | October 30, 2015 at 2:01 am 

I am so happy that someone has been brought in on this case and others. I have to admit that it is not the person I thought that it was where they searched his farm twice and even though it is not proof in the Wetterling case, I have always felt from the beginning, 26 years ago that Jared and Jacobs case were related but was not sure of the others. If this is the real kidnapper of Jacob, I have egg on my face and admit it. I just hope that it is so that no more kids and their families and friends will have to ever go through the same thing from this animal.

38.  Drew | October 30, 2015 at 2:32 am 

I lived in St. Cloud, beginning in January of 88. I read the Times paper every single day. I’d like to know if my memory is just bad or if the SCT never reported all of the Paynesville attacks. Given the stage and events of my life that time, I think I would have remembered them. And at the time of Jacob’s abduction, I read and watched every single thing about it. Again, I think I would have remembered if they mentioned the Paynesville attacks.

39.  Julie V | October 30, 2015 at 2:43 am 

I was so glad to hear the development. I just pray the end is in sight for Patti and the family. I am so thankful that you have done what you were able to, to shine a light on these old cases. Prayers sent for all.

40.  Jeffrey S. Williams | October 30, 2015 at 4:49 am 

If this guy indeed is Jacob’s abductor, be proud of the work that you did. None of this would have happened if you had not re-examined the Cold Spring cases and brought it to the forefront of public knowledge through your blog. I know that you are facing a whirlwind of emotions right now. That’s completely understandable. In time, the truth will be known. There is never a happy ending in cases like this, but closure is an important thing. And, again, if indeed, this solves the case, those of us who have been praying and following the case for 26 years have you to thank.

41.  Shellece Baker-Kroll | October 30, 2015 at 8:44 am 

I hope and pray that they find something substantial that is able to link him 100% to Jacobs disappearance and are able to prosecute and convict him. So the Wetterling family will have some peace and closure. I’m sad to hear he isn’t able to be prosecuted for Jared’s case… I hope that Jared is able to have some closure for himself…

42.  Pamela Brown | October 30, 2015 at 9:12 am 

I completely agree. It has been Joy who has focused everyone on Paynesville. Some of us, such as myself, did not at first realize how significant that is.

43.  Laura | October 30, 2015 at 9:42 am 

Great job JOY!
I feel in my heart this is the evil POS that took Jacob. I hope he confesses to it and it’s all over. A beautiful boy was taken and Lord knows I don’t want to know the details of what happened to him. This world is not fair because in a fair world, that Sick POS would be given to the parents to have their way with him in punishment.
But on a softer note, I’m glad that the Wetterlings are still going strong because I am so very proud of how far they have come. #JacobStrong

44.  Mary | October 30, 2015 at 11:15 am 

Joy, You should be so proud of yourself for pursuing this story to find the killer. Because of your persistence in keeping this story alive Jacob’s parents may now have closure after a suspect has finally been apprehended. You are truly amazing.

45.  amayita | October 30, 2015 at 11:16 am 

Watch this video: 

46.  Susan Dressel | October 30, 2015 at 11:16 am 

Joy, putting your HEART AND SOUL into this case is so appreciated by all! Love you Cuz!

47.  Mario V | October 30, 2015 at 11:52 am 

Everyone is proud of Jared and you too for using your talents to help shine the spotlight Joy.
Hoping this guy cracks and leads the police to Jacob so his family can at least have all the answers they sought for so long now.
I’m sure there’s much more interesting stuff to learn about this creepo and hopefully USAG Luger will put a paperclip on this guy’s kiddieporn prosecution so he never sees sunlight again.

48.  toevlugsoord | October 30, 2015 at 12:27 pm 

Thank you – you made such a massive difference in the lives of these families. I really hope he confesses or somehow they discover something to answer what happened to Jacob. The family has had hope all these years that he might still be alive. They deserve closure one way or another.

49.  Debbie | October 30, 2015 at 1:18 pm 

Thank you Joy, for all you have done to help find out what happen to Jacob. And, a special THANK YOU to brave, strong Jared, who is my hero in helping to solve these abductions. My prayers are with Jared, as he learns to cope with knowing who his attacker was. And my prayers are with the Wetterling family, as they await possible answers.

50.  KateRiley | October 30, 2015 at 3:13 pm 

Being from England I had never heard of Jacob or Jared. Then a couple of years ago I stumbled across your blog by accident. Joy, I read it all and was hooked. What an incredibly sad and disturbing story. It touched me and saddened me and I never stopped hoping that the truth would be revealed. I pray that this is the breakthrough you have all searched for. You and your wonderful blog have made such a difference. I hope there is closure and peace for the Wetterlings who have suffered for a very long time. People like you and Jared, who was so brave,restore my faith in humanity. Much love to you all, and thank you.

51.   Julie Jo Severson | October 30, 2015 at 4:32 pm 

There are no words. Endless gratitude to you, Joy.

52.   Donna krupke | October 30, 2015 at 5:15 pm 

It sickens me that there’s a statue of limitation it’s unbelievable that they would do This

53.   Lanie Dudek | October 30, 2015 at 8:06 pm 

Thank you for keeping these cases alive and commented on. I hope all the cases will now be solved.

54.   Amanda m | October 30, 2015 at 8:54 pm 

I knew there had to be a reason why. I didn’t believe you gave up on your search. I prayed so hard that there was news and that would be the reason. God is good!

55.   Ramona | October 31, 2015 at 6:47 am 

Thank you for your informative blog. It encouraged me to keep Jacob fresh in my mind. I have always thought it was the same person who assaulted Jared, did the Paynesville assaults, and abducted Jacob. Let’s pray the Wetterlings have closure soon.

56.   Jackie Toney | October 31, 2015 at 9:36 am 

The shoes imprints look very compelling, but didn’t Jacob’s brother and friend say that the man who abducted them wore black boots?

57.   Lisa | October 31, 2015 at 10:01 am 

Wow! Could this really be it? So weird. All this time thinking maybe it was this guy or maybe it was that guy. I have personally never even heard of this man they have in custody. Has anyone else? This gives me hope again that maybe law enforcement really does have this case more under control than we thought. For a while there, I was frustrated. 

Such a shame they can’t prosecute him for his assault on Jared. But I’m happy that Jared finally has his answer. I really think “The Hunt” and Joy and Jared have helped keep this case alive and kept the public involved in helping. And Joy, not only has your blog brought lots of important information, but it’s also brought people together in prayers and hope. And prayers and hope are very powerful. And Jared, you’re a brave man! You should be very proud of yourself!

58.   Mike | October 31, 2015 at 12:31 pm 

I don’t go outside my circle unless the person or their contribution is of such magnitude that it aboslutely needs to be pointed out how we should all act and what is important in life.
You are that person Joy. I don’t know you, but after reading the news reports I kept asking myself, what would have happened WITHOUT this woman. My guess is nothing.
And for that reason I felt compelled to thank you. Thank you for being someone who cared. Thank you for remembering. Thank you for being a great human being and an example for everyone.

I don’t think most people are looking at the width and depth of the damage this animal has caused to us all. The victims, the families and friends and to us all as a community. Knowing we can capture him and remove him from our midst is a healthy thing for all of us.
Knowing there will never be a sufficent amount of punishment to ever make him pay for his crimes is just something we all have to live with.
Thank You Again, Joy

59.   Pamela Brown | October 31, 2015 at 2:07 pm 

Agreed, Mike. We can all be grateful for Joy’s tenacity. Why don’t we all ask people on FB or wherever we post to read this site? I am.

60.   Mona | October 31, 2015 at 2:36 pm 

So true, Mike!! And we are still disgusted that we as parents around the New London area were never warned or heard a thing that was going on in Paynesville!!

61.   Mark Anderson | October 31, 2015 at 6:02 pm 

Reading the indictment provides many answers readers have wondered about, but many remain: Heinrich was a suspect early on in Jared’s case as well as Jacob’s. What led police to identify him as a suspect in Jared’s case? Was he considrered early on a suspect in the Paynesville assaults? If not, why not?
The tire and shoe prints of Heinrichs left at the scene of Jacob’s abuction were very damning even if not sufficient to bring charges. Authorities must have felt Heinrich was Jacob’s abductor so why then did they go after Daniel Rassier so strongly going so far as to dig up his yard. Did Rassier know Heinrich?

62.   Jeff | November 1, 2015 at 3:01 pm 

The entire search warrant of Heinrich’s home with very detailed history of Jared’s assault, description of what led authorities to suspect Danny Heinrich’s involvement, and their knowledge of Paynesville incidents is in this article:

http://heavy.com/news/2015/10/danny-james-heinrich-jacob-wetterling-arrest-suspect-missing-family-facebook/

It was very interesting to read the descriptions/accounts of the two separate vehicles Heinrich owned at the times of Jared and Jacob’s abductions. The former fits Jared’s description, the latter fits what Dan Rassier describes as the second car that came down his driveway the night of Jacob’s abduction. 

One other thing that interested me was how Dan Rassier described someone in the passenger seat of the second vehicle that night. The woman or child was looking out the window with his/her hands cupped over their eyes. In the search warrant description of Jared’s abduction, Jared was instructed to cover his own eyes with his stocking cap while in the vehicle.

63.   Joan oellien | November 2, 2015 at 6:57 pm 

I heard that Rassier made a comment to someone that maybe they buried Jacob in his gravel pit or dump that was located on his property. I’m thinking thats what prompted the digging by authorities. I feel very badly for Rassier, it looks to me that the only thing he did wrong was living right where some sob was stalking Jacob

64.   Jim | November 2, 2015 at 10:05 pm 

I wonder if Dan has look at what a ford exp looks like ,does it match the car he seen turn around near his house ,do the colors match? I don’t think the exp had a hatch back but could maybe be mistaken for one
it isn’t impossible that that car still be out there , on or off the road

65.   Jim | November 2, 2015 at 10:11 pm 

I guess some exp models did have a hatch back

66.   M | November 3, 2015 at 1:00 am 

Mark A – agreed, something is amiss. CCO story states that the Paynesville investigator contacted the Wetterling’s investigator back in 1990…I get we didn’t have a thriving internet back then, but in communities not far form each other, and using some of the same resources I can’t for the life of me understand why these dots weren’t connected sooner….I still say something stinks to h*** in all of these cases.

67.   Ellen Hubbard | November 3, 2015 at 7:38 pm 

I just went back to Joy’s Feb 23, 2013 post with Dan Rassier’s account of the night Jacob was abducted, and reviewed the part where Dan talks about seeing a second vehicle pull into his driveway. This citing took place after Dan returned from his jog, after dark. He is sure that the car which pulled into his driveway was small and dark in color, possibly blue or black. He is less sure about perhaps seeing a passenger — a woman or a child — with his or her hands covering his/her eyes. According to Dan’s account, he went to bed shortly after seeing this car, around 10 pm. Jacob was taken at 9:15 pm.

The Star Tribune has some photos pertaining to the person of interest and there’s a photo of a small, blue vehicle. Here’s the link: http://www.startribune.com/what-we-know-about-danny-james-heinrich/338508931/#8

Dan’s story and the photos of the bastard’s car makes one wonder whether perhaps Dan unwittingly saw Jacob in the moments after the abduction.

68.   Debbie | November 3, 2015 at 10:51 pm 

According to Mn Arrest Records, Danny James Heinrich was charged with Illegal Radio Equipment and 5th Degree Assault, on 10/1/1986, (both dismissed).

69.   Lisa | November 3, 2015 at 11:21 pm 

Since Danny Heinrich lived with his dad (who died in 2002), it would be interesting to see what kind of car he drove. Maybe some of Danny and his father’s neighbors may recall. Could that be the car Dan Rassier saw earlier? What did Danny’s father do in 1998. It also appears Danny has 2 brothers and a sister but no mention of his mother. There is so much more to the story, but it sure does seem like the police missed a lot of information.

70.   Mona | November 4, 2015 at 12:31 am 

Do you know what’s been done with that blue car (Heinrich’s )? To get more evidence?

71.   Donavon Mickelson | November 4, 2015 at 2:03 am 

Mona; I agree with you and also with you Mark.

72.   Leslie | November 4, 2015 at 7:54 am 

I’ve been thinking…IF Danny is Jacobs abductor- and we now know he was the one who sexually assaulted Jared a question we all have asked is why wasn’t Jacob let go? And if it was Danny that was involved in the other attacks around that time why weren’t those kids taken? So I was wondering… Danny had binders of pornographic images of boys and videos of young boys that seemed to be home videos he made himself while hiding and he did kidnap and sexually assault Jared. Do you think maybe Danny got to a point where spying in the bushes, looking at pictures, and letting his victims go was just not enough to ‘satisfy’ him? Kind of like how with alcohol you eventually build up a tolerance and need more to get the same effect.

73.   Jim | November 4, 2015 at 6:03 pm 

Ellen I wondered the same thing and I think I read in here somewhere that Jared was told to cover his eyes buy his abductor
I have a feeling that this suspect is going to confess to the abduction but say he let Jacob go like he did Jared

74.   Kay | November 5, 2015 at 2:16 pm 

I agree with what many others have said here… Joy & Jared should feel incredibly proud. I do not think this would have happened without either of them. You both breathed new life into this case. Its amazing. I’ve lived with this haunting story in the back of my mind my entire life practically. I was 7 years old when this happened. I honestly thought it would never be solved. It is very clear to me that this is the right guy. I read the entire affidavit for the search warrant and I have no doubt in my mind it was him. Now can a tip from someone help bring Jacob home? Or can we get this creep to confess and tell us where he is? I am hoping one of those 2 scenarios will happen soon, so the Wetterlings and all of central Minnesota will finally have some peace of mind. I anxiously wait…

75.   Donavon Mickelson | November 9, 2015 at 1:39 am 

Leslie; you are right. Many times smaller crimes lead to bigger crimes, even window peepers, who were once thought to be harmless will become more aggressive as time goes on and they may end up kidnapping and killing their victims. I hope that Law Enforcement adds to this blog the many things kids are supposed to do if confronted by someone like this, including running, hitting, yelling, screaming and all in an attempt to get the publics attention and scare off the abductor. NEVER go with anyone because of the threat of a gun or a knife since you won’t be seen again.

76.   Ryan | November 9, 2015 at 6:08 pm 

Leslie… I think the reason Jacob let go was because Danny became sicker over time. I mean groping kids and assaulting them eventually led to taking them in his car and scaring them and then to taking them and not letting them go… in Jacob’s case. He became extremely sick and delusional is my best guess. Even to this day its possible that he is so delusioned and doesn’t even know or not if he took Jacob.